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Bodyweight Are ring rows effective?

Jose Manuel

Level 4 Valued Member
For a long time, due to mobility problems, my body does not like pull-ups. I have tried them with pronated, supinated and neutral grip, but I always end up with shoulder pain. I just can't pack my shoulders properly. I wonder if weighted feet elevated ring rows or other types of rows can be a decent substitute if I want to have a broad and strong back. Rows don't cause me pain at all.

I'm currently doing Armour of War, by Tom Furman.

I would appreciate your inputs.

Kind regards.
 
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Jose Manuel said:
or other types of rows can be a decent substitute if I want to have a broad and strong back. Rows don't cause me pain at all.
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I do less chins now as they have been my primary back exercise for the past 8yrs. They have served me well. A new exercise for me are gorilla rows they really seem to work the lats more instead of the connective tissue near the arm pits. I think they also hit the rear delts. It’s a new year find a exercise that feels good work hard and be consistent and make da gains. Wish you success.
 
Steve Freides said:
@Jose Manuel, have you tried doing some very slow reps? Have you experimented with angle of your wrist at the bar? For this one, I recommend reading Optimizing the Kettlebell Military Press Grip—For You | StrongFirst by StrongFirst's Director of Education, @Brett Jones and applying much the same kind of thinking to how you hold onto a pullup bar. And there's lots more to pullup technique to discuss if you're interested.

-S-
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First of all, thanks for your answer. I have tried various grips and after consulting with a physical therapist, the problem is my inability to properly raise my arms above my head. Therefore, both the military press and the pull-ups irritate my shoulders.
Anyway, I'll take a look to that reading.
Kind regards.
 
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Do this, there is much wisdom there correction first before moving on.
Steve Freides said:
@Jose Manuel, have you tried doing some very slow reps? Have you experimented with angle of your wrist at the bar? For this one, I recommend reading Optimizing the Kettlebell Military Press Grip—For You | StrongFirst by StrongFirst's Director of Education, @Brett Jones and applying much the same kind of thinking to how you hold onto a pullup bar. And there's lots more to pullup technique to discuss if you're interested.

-S-
Click to expand...
 
Jose Manuel said:
First of all, thanks for your answer. I have tried various grips and after consulting with a physical therapist, the problem is my inability to properly raise my arms above my head. Therefore, both the military press and the pull-ups irritate my shoulders.
Anyway, I'll take a look to that reading.
Kind regards.
Click to expand...
You're welcome, @Jose Manuel. My orthopedist tells me that, based on the imaging that's been done to my shoulders, he's surprised I raise my hand over my head, but somehow I manage. You know, Pavel's most recent article here, Seven Steps to Strength: Programming as a Science Experiment | StrongFirst, contains some very wise words throughout, but these at the beginning struck me most:

What do successful athletes not blessed with Olympic genes have in common?—Patience to tweak their training, one variable at a time, until they have found “their” way.
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While the article is about programming, the same is true of technique. One of the greatest, and arguably _the_ greatest powerlifter of all time, Ed Coan, talk about this in some of the videos you can find on YouTube, and often in response to questions like, "What should my stance be?" about someone's deadlift or squat. He answer is always along the lines of, "Find something that works for you, then keep experimenting in small ways to see if you can improve it." I owe my recent lifetime deadlift PR's at age 67 to his advice because I found that a slight change in position to my right foot - we're talking about maybe 1", maximum - allowed me to pull more weight and, not only that, it felt better, too, the proverbial "win/win."

I have worked out my own cues for being able to do overhead work and, while it's far ideal - ideal would be shoulders that weren't diagnosed with "severe arthritis," I get by OK. And I'm still experimenting, still learning, about what it is that _I_ need to do in order to do overhead work, and I'm still improving.

-S-
 
Jose Manuel said:
For a long time, due to mobility problems, my body does not like pull-ups. I have tried them with pronated, supinated and neutral grip, but I always end up with shoulder pain. I just can't pack my shoulders properly. I wonder if weighted feet elevated ring rows or other types of rows can be a decent substitute if I want to have a broad and strong back. Rows don't cause me pain at all.

I'm currently doing Armour of War, by Tom Furman.

I would appreciate your inputs.

Kind regards.
Click to expand...
Jose

What have you done to address t-spine mobility?

And focusing on rows while you sort things out is a good strategy.
 
Steve’s advices are always wise. The ring rows, gave me the chance to strengthen my scapula, where my scapula strength was not high enough to work on it w full ROM w Chin ups.

Having said that, I found dead hangs, then scapula pull ups, as a good Rom and shoulder rehab tool.

In my humble opinion, exercising any of the major compound movement patterns such as rows, with a proper program will eventually lead to great results.
 
Steve Freides said:
You're welcome, @Jose Manuel. My orthopedist tells me that, based on the imaging that's been done to my shoulders, he's surprised I raise my hand over my head, but somehow I manage. You know, Pavel's most recent article here, Seven Steps to Strength: Programming as a Science Experiment | StrongFirst, contains some very wise words throughout, but these at the beginning struck me most:



While the article is about programming, the same is true of technique. One of the greatest, and arguably _the_ greatest powerlifter of all time, Ed Coan, talk about this in some of the videos you can find on YouTube, and often in response to questions like, "What should my stance be?" about someone's deadlift or squat. He answer is always along the lines of, "Find something that works for you, then keep experimenting in small ways to see if you can improve it." I owe my recent lifetime deadlift PR's at age 67 to his advice because I found that a slight change in position to my right foot - we're talking about maybe 1", maximum - allowed me to pull more weight and, not only that, it felt better, too, the proverbial "win/win."

I have worked out my own cues for being able to do overhead work and, while it's far ideal - ideal would be shoulders that weren't diagnosed with "severe arthritis," I get by OK. And I'm still experimenting, still learning, about what it is that _I_ need to do in order to do overhead work, and I'm still improving.

-S-
Click to expand...
Thank you again for your words; the truth is that I abandoned the kettlebell military press due to that lack of mobility (although I managed to finish ROP with 20 kgs, that left me with permanent discomfort in my shoulders). Currently my only pressing movement is the weighted push-up with elevated feet, which I consider to be a great exercise. At 49 years old, my main goal is to avoid pain and stay reasonably fit, so I choose exercises that allow me to maintain a comfortable posture. By this I mean that I am not particularly worried about not being able to do military presses or pull-ups, although of course I would like to.

Best regards.
 
Why don't you try some and see what happens?

At one point when I could do about 20 pullups I threw some ring rows into a fluff circuit, never having done them, on the assumption that my max with feet elevated and bodyweight for resistance would be quite a bit greater than my pullup max--after all, a bunch of my weight was supported. This turned out not to be the case. I think I failed at 15r on the first set, and I figured they were probably doing something good if they were that difficult and in any event a nice break from pullups as main upper back lift. I don't know that they opened sny doors, but I don't think they hurt ny progress any either.
 
Brett Jones said:
Jose

What have you done to address t-spine mobility?

And focusing on rows while you sort things out is a good strategy.
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I' ve tried, among others, kB arm bar, band pull apart and halos. I improved a little, but not enough to feel comfortable.

Thanks for your response.
 
psmith said:
Why don't you try some and see what happens?

At one point when I could do about 20 pullups I threw some ring rows into a fluff circuit, never having done them, on the assumption that my max with feet elevated and bodyweight for resistance would be quite a bit greater than my pullup max--after all, a bunch of my weight was supported. This turned out not to be the case. I think I failed at 15r on the first set, and I figured they were probably doing something good if they were that difficult and in any event a nice break from pullups as main upper back lift. I don't know that they opened sny doors, but I don't think they hurt ny progress any either.
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How curious! I, of course, am capable of doing many more rows than pull-ups.
 
Ring rows are great! You could also try to work up to one arm row (if you are not there yet).
 
Jose Manuel said:
Thank you again for your words; the truth is that I abandoned the kettlebell military press due to that lack of mobility (although I managed to finish ROP with 20 kgs, that left me with permanent discomfort in my shoulders).
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Shoulders are quite slow to recovery. What worked for me was about a year of no pressing and qigong, very soft style practice with an emphasis on relaxation.

-S-
 
Ring Rows are very good. As age 50 they are the only rows I do. You can adjust your leg position to make them harder or easier.
 
Yes, currently weighted and feet elevated, multiple sets of five. I alternate day A: feet elevated push ups + swings or deadlift, day B: feet elevated ring rows+ double kettlebell front squats.Thanks .
 
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There are a lot of other strategies that I would try for the t-spine—breathing, rib grab, and brettzel for example.
 
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