AUTOMATION

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dnguyen411

Level 6 Valued Member
If lots of jobs will be replaced by robots/automatons and these will turn out lots of products and services who will buy if people are out of work and don't have money?
In my opinion, humans did not become the most dominate species on this planet just by sure luck. We have the ability to be adaptive but we need a lot of good minds to plan and work out a way we can adapt at a rate that doesn't leave people behind but doesn't hinder the progression of progress. It's a delicate balancing act.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
@apa, the GIF works and it's fine. I don't believe it's a bandwidth hog - I think it's self-contained.

-S-
 

apa

Level 6 Valued Member
@apa, the GIF works and it's fine. I don't believe it's a bandwidth hog - I think it's self-contained.

-S-
Thank you. I tried to check the rules and see if there is something specific about it. Considering there are people from all ages here I was uncertain if moving images are more of a nuisance. People with older computers and bad connections don't like them either.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
If anyone wants to register a complaint about having an animated GIF here, please speak up - we can always change it.

-S-
 

dnguyen411

Level 6 Valued Member
The following link is a great example of how automation has made painting an airplane wing much faster however there are still plenty of humans involved with the process.

 

Tarzan

Level 4 Valued Member
Maybe we should start to profile robots to find out what interests them & start a forum where they can bitch about humans etc.

Surely we could target advertising at the bastards .

It sure is an interesting slice of biological/mechanical/digital anthropology - the first species on earth to engineer our own obsolescence !!

Viva la robot

Bright light robot gonna set my arse, gonna set my arse on fire.
 

dnguyen411

Level 6 Valued Member
Maybe we should start to profile robots to find out what interests them & start a forum where they can bitch about humans etc.

Surely we could target advertising at the bastards .
Well that's easy. Most robots love one's and zero's. Hate code that makes them divide by zero and water unless they been fitted with a watertight suit.
 

dnguyen411

Level 6 Valued Member

One more video... what this one illustrates is that robots (at least right now) aren't good at doing custom jobs. Another example I can think of is trades work like plumbing, pipe fitting, welding, etc. These jobs, especially when it comes to new build or modification, need a human to adapt to issues that come up during the build. Robots are good at doing things that are known and steady state (e.g. assembly), but not so good at adaptation if something goes wrong.

And unless AI and machine learning gets to the point where a robot can adapt to changes beyond it's programming or constraints (e.g. a painting robot can't become a walking robot all of a sudden) I think we can find work for everyone. We need to be open minded and willing to acquire new skills. One thing I wish companies did more of is hire and send folks through so many months/years of training. True a company will not be making any money on the human during this training period put it should pay dividends in the future.
 

banzaiengr

Level 7 Valued Member
I've spent 38 years in the railroad industry. When I started there could be as many as 5 employees on a train. Now there are two, both on the lead locomotive. This is all due to technology.

One thing that happened when we went to two crew members was actually kind of incredible. After a few years we were short of employees. By having only two crew members the carriers were able to compete with other forms of transportation and we had more business.

Now the carriers want to go to one crew member. Actually there is most likely the technology out there to run the trains with no one. The funny thing is that with all the advancement in technology to run the trains safer and with less people, the carriers still can't tell an engineer when he's going to work. They put money into technology that supports the bottom line but not into what would be beneficial to their employees and their employee's safety.

When the government gets involved regarding crew member rest issues, neither the carrier or the union can come to an agreement. Therefore we get some kind of watered down legislation written by people who don't understand the issues. Then the carriers find loop holes in the legislation and take advantage of it. Nothing gets accomplished.

The rail companies carry some really nasty stuff through your communities. They actually have a very good safety record when it is computed into ton miles. When something does happen it can be catastrophic. When you hear of legislation to keep two crew members on a train, support it. I can tell you personally that you do not want one person on those trains.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 7 Valued Member

One more video... what this one illustrates is that robots (at least right now) aren't good at doing custom jobs. Another example I can think of is trades work like plumbing, pipe fitting, welding, etc. These jobs, especially when it comes to new build or modification, need a human to adapt to issues that come up during the build. Robots are good at doing things that are known and steady state (e.g. assembly), but not so good at adaptation if something goes wrong.

And unless AI and machine learning gets to the point where a robot can adapt to changes beyond it's programming or constraints (e.g. a painting robot can't become a walking robot all of a sudden) I think we can find work for everyone. We need to be open minded and willing to acquire new skills. One thing I wish companies did more of is hire and send folks through so many months/years of training. True a company will not be making any money on the human during this training period put it should pay dividends in the future.
The company could write off the training time against their owed taxes, preferential rates could even be written into the tax code so it would be worth more on a write down than other types of expenses (if this is not already the case). The problem with that is you then have to increase sales to employ those newly minted workers, and that involves more capital - easier to buy back more stock and give yourself a bonus.

The biggest problem as I see it is that the trades and skills that cannot be done by a robot will see greater competition and the wage is driven down indirectly by automation even if it cannot be directly influenced.

Another factor is that as the large market for fixed robot labor becomes more refined the tech will branch out to those areas requiring greater adaptation. While the last DARPA rescue robot competition was a bust, I can only imagine what the folks at DoD are whipping up, the stuff out of Boston Dynamics is crazy.

Anything capable of negotiating a combat zone will probably be able to re-roof and side your house, just a matter of time and figuring out a way to make better batteries.

Is going to be interesting.


 
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Kyrinov

Level 6 Valued Member
My greatest point of pride in life is having enough brains to abandon the sinking ship of academia for what i suspect will be one of the last jobs to go - Paramedics. If a robot can do my job that will be the day that they are indistinguishable from humans. Interestingly enough while other fields are slashing workers we may become scarce as it seems the incoming generation increasingly lacks the basic skills required (like using their hands, lifting things and talking to people) to even begin to learn the ropes. For the kinds of folks who peruse this forum, it is a dream job.
 

dnguyen411

Level 6 Valued Member
My greatest point of pride in life is having enough brains to abandon the sinking ship of academia for what i suspect will be one of the last jobs to go - Paramedics. If a robot can do my job that will be the day that they are indistinguishable from humans. Interestingly enough while other fields are slashing workers we may become scarce as it seems the incoming generation increasingly lacks the basic skills required (like using their hands, lifting things and talking to people) to even begin to learn the ropes. For the kinds of folks who peruse this forum, it is a dream job.
You are forgetting in the future we'll have tractor beams to lift "heavy" things and Star Trek like Transporters to beam us to the nearest hospitals. By my calculations, you'll only be safe for another 300 years. Better get your resume ready.

In all seriousness, I think we are starting to see a shift back towards trades or jobs that require hands on work since we have a whole generation of folks that work these job getting ready to retire but an entire generation behind them that were told to go to college, get a 4 year degree, and get a job in an office. And in the near future, not many of these jobs can be automated easily so these folks should have jobs to work for a long time. The problem will be convincing business owners to acknowledge the need to actually pay these folks a good wage.
 

Kettlebelephant

Level 7 Valued Member
I may be the most pessimistic of you all, but in a way it seems to be a good thing that we build the robots that may end up replacing us and further down the line, after resulting wars and sci-fi post apocalyptic scenarios, humans as a species are gone.
I thoroughly enjoy life and still force myself to believe that human beings are naturally good on the inside, but life experience tells me otherwise.
Even though it's a silly movie, but Marvel's Ultron and Mr. Smith from Matrix are right - humans are the cancer of this planet and it would be much better off without us.

I switched my mayors to teaching a year ago to get out of that hamster wheel that is todays white collar worklife. It think when the time comes that teaching by humans gets obsolete, that's the day when everything falls apart, because we either get rid of the "emotional" side of teaching (and therefore our kids are lacking big time) and everything comes down to yes or no tests or robots get so advanced that they can get emotional (appreciate art, music etc.) and they will replace us entirely.
 

banzaiengr

Level 7 Valued Member
I may be the most pessimistic of you all, but in a way it seems to be a good thing that we build the robots that may end up replacing us and further down the line, after resulting wars and sci-fi post apocalyptic scenarios, humans as a species are gone.
I thoroughly enjoy life and still force myself to believe that human beings are naturally good on the inside, but life experience tells me otherwise.
Even though it's a silly movie, but Marvel's Ultron and Mr. Smith from Matrix are right - humans are the cancer of this planet and it would be much better off without us.

I switched my mayors to teaching a year ago to get out of that hamster wheel that is todays white collar worklife. It think when the time comes that teaching by humans gets obsolete, that's the day when everything falls apart, because we either get rid of the "emotional" side of teaching (and therefore our kids are lacking big time) and everything comes down to yes or no tests or robots get so advanced that they can get emotional (appreciate art, music etc.) and they will replace us entirely.

Our daughter is a teacher. I've helped out in the class room a few times. Never been so tired in my life. You guys deserve more pay and appreciation.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 7 Valued Member
I may be the most pessimistic of you all, but in a way it seems to be a good thing that we build the robots that may end up replacing us and further down the line, after resulting wars and sci-fi post apocalyptic scenarios, humans as a species are gone.
I thoroughly enjoy life and still force myself to believe that human beings are naturally good on the inside, but life experience tells me otherwise.
Even though it's a silly movie, but Marvel's Ultron and Mr. Smith from Matrix are right - humans are the cancer of this planet and it would be much better off without us.

I switched my mayors to teaching a year ago to get out of that hamster wheel that is todays white collar worklife. It think when the time comes that teaching by humans gets obsolete, that's the day when everything falls apart, because we either get rid of the "emotional" side of teaching (and therefore our kids are lacking big time) and everything comes down to yes or no tests or robots get so advanced that they can get emotional (appreciate art, music etc.) and they will replace us entirely.

Lately I have begun to wonder if intelligent robots were to take over if they might not make things better for us even at a social level. They might very well come up with solutions to some of our most pressing problems - doesn't look like we'll, as a species, be able to unify our efforts enough to fix or even stabilize things.

Instead of enslaving us (what use would robots have for us?!) or exterminating us, maybe they will have an inherent perspective that allows for intelligent solutions and means to implement them. "There are too many humans out of work, poor, ill, swamped with pollutants, fighting over scarce resources, etc etc. "

This could be an easy fix for creatures with no ideology, weaknesses, fears, investments to cloud the search for solutions...just trying to be positive.
 

dnguyen411

Level 6 Valued Member
I switched my mayors to teaching a year ago to get out of that hamster wheel that is todays white collar worklife. It think when the time comes that teaching by humans gets obsolete, that's the day when everything falls apart, because we either get rid of the "emotional" side of teaching (and therefore our kids are lacking big time) and everything comes down to yes or no tests or robots get so advanced that they can get emotional (appreciate art, music etc.) and they will replace us entirely.
I appreciate your decision to teach our next generation. You guys are truly underappreciated. I don't think we'll ever come to a time when teaching humans gets obsolete. Teaching the emotional side (i.e. arts and music) is important because, fundamentally, it's the decisions from that emotional side of our brain that creates the most impact. In my experience, most of our decisions start from an emotional perspective. It's our ability as humans to take that emotional decision and apply logic that has allow us to get to this point as a species. And yes, maybe I'm too much of an optimist, but it's that same optimistic attitude that drives me everyday to do better in life.
 

kodo kb

Level 6 Valued Member
I thoroughly enjoy life and still force myself to believe that human beings are naturally good on the inside, but life experience tells me otherwise.
You don't need people to be "naturally good", you just need them to choose/do good. And the fact that I live in a mostly-free state where utilities work is enough evidence for me that people are okay at doing/choosing good.

Even though it's a silly movie, but Marvel's Ultron and Mr. Smith from Matrix are right - humans are the cancer of this planet and it would be much better off without us.
Be a little kinder to yourself dude. Saying humans are a cancer is such a terrible state to be in. I mean, how does an inanimate world and semi-conscious animals garner more sympathy from you than the humans on it who attempt to survive, avoid suffering, and achieve joy? I'm rather happy living and being a human, and would choose any alternative.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 7 Valued Member
I may be the most pessimistic of you all, but in a way it seems to be a good thing that we build the robots that may end up replacing us and further down the line, after resulting wars and sci-fi post apocalyptic scenarios, humans as a species are gone.
I thoroughly enjoy life and still force myself to believe that human beings are naturally good on the inside, but life experience tells me otherwise.
Even though it's a silly movie, but Marvel's Ultron and Mr. Smith from Matrix are right - humans are the cancer of this planet and it would be much better off without us.

I switched my mayors to teaching a year ago to get out of that hamster wheel that is todays white collar worklife. It think when the time comes that teaching by humans gets obsolete, that's the day when everything falls apart, because we either get rid of the "emotional" side of teaching (and therefore our kids are lacking big time) and everything comes down to yes or no tests or robots get so advanced that they can get emotional (appreciate art, music etc.) and they will replace us entirely.

Don't worry, when teachers are replaced for academic purposes it won't be an android but a virtual professor over a video messenger service. Kid's faces and eye movement patterns will be tracked and the lesson adjusted real-time to hold their interest.:eek:

I'm not sure the cancer analogy holds up, a cancer doesn't know its killing its host. I believe people are basically good but also need to understand the consequences of their decisions. When its obvious most will make the right decision, but in many cases it isn't obvious or our individual contribution to any solution is so inadequate as to be irrelevant. Or we're stretched so thin our ability to make decisions even in the marketplace is limited.

One of the more surreal experiences I've had recently was watching the past Presidential debates about pressing world issues. Fukushima wasn't mentioned once, yet it was increasing radioactive output at the time and in Feb was higher than when readings were first taken in 2011 - its getting worse. There is virtually no mention in the news anymore and zero talk of a global response. It continues to dump radioactive water into the Pacific, and ironically to the conversation, not even robots can help much as they croak rapidly under the conditions there.
 
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