all posts post new thread

Kettlebell Bicep Tendonitis during S&S

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

Gepet

Level 4 Valued Member
My old friend, bicep tendonitis, is back. In the last few months I've been training solely with S&S and I've been wondering about a couple of things:
  1. Could either move have contributed to this? It's not the first time that I get this issue and sometimes I don't know what caused it so it might not relate with S&S. I don't have any recent video of my practice but I can post some older ones if you think my technique could be an issue.
  2. While resting and icing my arm, what exercises would you recommend to stay active? I'm thinking its time to learn the hardstyle situp and pistol.
 
Has your bicep tendonitis been diagnosed as such by a doctor? If so I would go to a physiotherapist and have them work with you and prescribe the appropriate exercises to rehab the issue.

Hard style sit-ups and pistols are always worthy things to do.

TacGu (Tactical Get-up) may also be practical. It worked for me when I had a pretty severe bicep tendon impingement.
 
offwidth said:
Has your bicep tendonitis been diagnosed as such by a doctor? If so I would go to a physiotherapist and have them work with you and prescribe the appropriate exercises to rehab the issue.

Hard style sit-ups and pistols are always worthy things to do.

TacGu (Tactical Get-up) may also be practical. It worked for me when I had a pretty severe bicep tendon impingement.
Click to expand...
It has twice in the past and I ended up going to physio both time. This time I haven't been to the doctor yet, but I'll be going soon. Tactical Get-up is an interesting idea! Where you using any weight with the TacGu?
 
Gepet said:
It has twice in the past and I ended up going to physio both time. This time I haven't been to the doctor yet, but I'll be going soon. Tactical Get-up is an interesting idea! Where you using any weight with the TacGu?
Click to expand...
24kg KB
 
@Gepet

Thanks for the videos.

1-Arm Swing: From what I see, your setup looks good, but as soon as you initiate the swing you are losing the connection with your lat. So now you are hiking the bell back with slack in your armpit and this translates into even more disconnection at the top of the swing. Your hip hinge is a bit shallow as well so you are not getting the necessary hip drive to project that bell forward.

Without going too far overboard with corrections, try to think about your setup as "the first rep". With a solid setup you will be giving yourself an excellent opportunity at performing a strong set of swings.

Here is the link to the SFG standards video. For now, take a look and see if you can mirror the technique demonstrated in the video. There are many other technique videos available on the StrongFirst Youtube channel as well.

 
Hi @Gepet

Relative to your biceps problem, I can't say for sure it's related, but I notice that you are "braking" the kettlebell a bit at the top of the swing. Try to let your arms be like ropes and your fingers be like hooks, just letting the kettlebell pull forward and rise to wherever it goes from the force you've put into it with your body's movement. "Enjoy the float" at the top of the swing, as @Brett Jones says.
 
For the short term focus on the two-arm swing and eliminate the one-arm swing so you can get the shoulders cleared up—see your physio again if needed.

In your one arm swing you seem to be looking to the left (this can really stress your neck etc...) and getting twisted to the left on some reps.
Hand position seems to be a bit internally rotated as well—you might be one of the folks who needs neutral or thumb up about 45-degrees.

Once you are out of pain returning to the one-arm swing with some of these changes will be easier.
 
coachnathanwhite said:
@Gepet

Thanks for the videos.

1-Arm Swing: From what I see, your setup looks good, but as soon as you initiate the swing you are losing the connection with your lat. So now you are hiking the bell back with slack in your armpit and this translates into even more disconnection at the top of the swing. Your hip hinge is a bit shallow as well so you are not getting the necessary hip drive to project that bell forward.

Without going too far overboard with corrections, try to think about your setup as "the first rep". With a solid setup you will be giving yourself an excellent opportunity at performing a strong set of swings.

Here is the link to the SFG standards video. For now, take a look and see if you can mirror the technique demonstrated in the video. There are many other technique videos available on the StrongFirst Youtube channel as well.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips! Once my arm is healed up, I'll try some drills to engage the lats better and work in my technique. Is the lats engagement and shallowness an issue with the two hand swing as well?
 
Anna C said:
Hi @Gepet

Relative to your biceps problem, I can't say for sure it's related, but I notice that you are "braking" the kettlebell a bit at the top of the swing. Try to let your arms be like ropes and your fingers be like hooks, just letting the kettlebell pull forward and rise to wherever it goes from the force you've put into it with your body's movement. "Enjoy the float" at the top of the swing, as @Brett Jones says.
Click to expand...
Right, thanks! I didn't think about that at all but I can see that now.
 
Brett Jones said:
For the short term focus on the two-arm swing and eliminate the one-arm swing so you can get the shoulders cleared up—see your physio again if needed.

In your one arm swing you seem to be looking to the left (this can really stress your neck etc...) and getting twisted to the left on some reps.
Hand position seems to be a bit internally rotated as well—you might be one of the folks who needs neutral or thumb up about 45-degrees.

Once you are out of pain returning to the one-arm swing with some of these changes will be easier.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice. I was wondering about internal rotation as well but thought that thumb pointing back was default for people to KB. Do you mean that due to my body structure I might be better suited for neutral/thumbs up? Or that due to my poor technique, it's less risky to use neutral/thumbs up grip?
 
Gepet said:
Thanks for the tips! Once my arm is healed up, I'll try some drills to engage the lats better and work in my technique. Is the lats engagement and shallowness an issue with the two hand swing as well?
Click to expand...
Engaging the lats will be easier on the 2-arm swing as you can attempt to "break the handle" as you swing. This action will turn the lats on and tighten up your technique. With more practice you will be able to replicate that feeling with the 1-arm swing.

Practicing the getup will also assist with this as you need to pack the shoulder with a straight arm and wrist throughout the movement. This is why you see the 1-arm swing and getup paired together so often in StrongFirst programming as they compliment each other very well.
 
Along with what everyone else said, it looks like your arm is bending at the elbow during your hike pass. You may be using some of your biceps to power the bell forward one the accent. I do this, too, when I don't have my lats/shoulder packed. It tends to make that whole side a little loose. It even looks like your right leg is slightly rotating. Really focus on staying tight on the descent and hike pass.
 
Gepet said:
Thanks for the advice. I was wondering about internal rotation as well but thought that thumb pointing back was default for people to KB. Do you mean that due to my body structure I might be better suited for neutral/thumbs up? Or that due to my poor technique, it's less risky to use neutral/thumbs up grip?
Click to expand...
I think it is a combination. It may be your structure and technique but we need to get the point of not having pain before we can really evaluate your technique.
And as Ronzi noted if your elbow is bending on the backswing you are loading your bicep.
 
@Gepet thank you for this thread...

It's a great illustration of why StrongFirst has a particular technique and method for swings, get-ups, etc. The details matter.

People don't always understand this, because a whole lot of the details really DON'T matter if someone does these exercises just once or twice a month (like in a boot camp class, CrossFit WOD, occasional variety session, etc.). But they DO matter when doing them many times per week and accumulating a lot of volume. And we know that a lot of volume with kettlebell training is effective in getting results.

As for injuries, tweaks, and overuse problems, while we can't always say "doing things X way will cause Y problem", we can pretty definitively say that cleaning up form is the most reliable path to trouble-free training. And trouble-free consistent training is the more reliable path to progressing towards one's goals.

So anyway, good thread, great inputs... and as always with the forum, I hope it helps you with your individual problem, as well as offering insight to many others who may see something that helps them too.
 
Hello all, just a short update. I just came back from the physio and my issues are due to elbow tendonitis (a combo of golfers and tennis elbow), linked to my tight trap and a result of spending hours a day in front of a computer. They showed me some stretches and exercises to do during the day and I'll be going back next week. They said it's fine to restart kettlebell training provided it doesn't hurt too much. However, it was clear that the physio wasn't very knowledgeable about KB training and couldn't provide any advice regarding what to avoid.

I want to return to my path S&S path and I would like some input on what to avoid. I was thinking of restarting with 5x5 two hand swings and BW get-ups and build slowly. And I will try to use one hand swings in a few weeks as I think this might stressful on the elbow. What do you think?
 
@Gepet, physios are funny like that.

In the most general terms, anything where there is an "itis" and specifically for tendinitis, you want to avoid anything that causes an increase in pain. that's a sign that the inflammation is continuing to be stressed and will not get better. It is hard to give advice to you on what you SPECIFICALLY should avoid, because not one person is built the same.

I like the outline you made yourself to slowly build yourself back up...as long as it is pain-free.
 
Last edited:
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom