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Other/Mixed Blog - The Best Squat Exercise

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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The goblet and zercher squat look similar to me. Coincidence? It seems like going from Goblet to Zercher is a logical progression.
 
I love Zercher Squats. Front Squat is a better Squat in my opinion, but it requires very specific upper body flexibility. The Zercher is more accessible for the vast majority of people.
 
I've been doing zercher stuff like crazy lately. Full lifts, deadlifts from the floor, holds, carries.

The deadlifts from the floor are done with a rounded back and not an ounce of discomfort. Back feels great. I was very surprised. And that is not me recommending that you lift with a rounded back.
 
The winner for me would be Front Squat. From experience I've noticed when my Front Squat went up so did my Deadlift, Back Squat, and Oh Press. With that said, I Back Squat with a high bar position and drop all the way down. If my Back Squat goes up, so does my Front Squat and vice versa. Definitely feel like I get better leg drive off of the floor on the deadlift when I'm front squatting consistently. Most of the time I like to do Front Squat for heavy sets of 1-5 and then do volume work with Back Squats.

I've done KB Front Squats from time to time with my 2-55's. I have to go really high rep to get anything out of them. Something like sets of 10-20. Definitely an Ab smoker as Pavel mentioned in the article more so than my quads.

As far as Zerchers I have only done them once in my life and couldn't get the bar situated in a "comfortable" spot in the crooks of my elbows. Not enough experience for me to comment on them.

The Pistol Squat might as well be a fluffy unicorn for me!!! Pretty much why I stick to the Jane Fonda lunges!!
 
I did some zerchers recently in singles and doubles and really like it. What programming can you recommend for this lift? I mainly do zerchers after my deadlift sessions to keep squatting movement in my training.
 
MattM said:
I've been doing zercher stuff like crazy lately. Full lifts, deadlifts from the floor, holds, carries.

The deadlifts from the floor are done with a rounded back and not an ounce of discomfort. Back feels great. I was very surprised. And that is not me recommending that you lift with a rounded back.
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Only one way to get stuff up off the floor, you have to have some round back lifting in your repertoire.

For me its Zercher sandbag with a bearhug, though I don't do it anywhere near as often as I should.

Personally I love the feel of barbell back squat, but Zercher are probably the most useful.
 
@North Coast Miller Its odd when you find out that everything that's been beaten into your head (don't do anything with even remotely close to a rounded lower back!) might not be true.

So all of those times in my early 20s I hurt my back deadlifting I was doing it right all along!?

Who knows. Nobody knows anything.
 
@MattM Purposeful round back training is helpful for real life strength because we train so much in extension, but you still need to practice good form. I would not say we Round the lower back, it happens to some degree, you don't want to tuck your butt, it's a very weak position you can't use your leverage, but definitely flexing and extending the upper back.
 
I thought (from listening to Dr. Stuart McGill) that the basic principle was to not move the spine under load.

So if you round the back and lift (i.e. Atlas stone lifting) this can be OK, as long as you don't flex/extend while loaded.

But in general the safest thing is to maintain neutral (flat-ish) back, braced, while lifting.

Does that sound right?
 
In my unqualified opinion, a little butt wink is OK at the bottom of most squat movements as long as its the last thing to happen at the bottom, and the first thing to straighten out as the load moves up.

When it comes to lifting off the floor with the feet on the floor, some lumbar flex is unavoidable. As long as it straightens out prior to any drive movements it shouldn't be an issue.

Usually rounded back, arms inside the knees, load comes up more with more of a rotation/camming action, the hips drop a little to get underneath and the load gets pulled in tight, elbows on the thighs. Once the load is on the thighs and drawn in, lumbar fully straightens out, shoulders pull back, arms separate from the thighs, and you're ready to drive. I'd imagine people who get into trouble wind up skipping that last step.

I do sandbag bearhug Zercher and DL, and offset back squats with sandbag lifted from the floor, nothing crazy - 120 lbs, and if anything I'd swear adding some round back lifting has improved my back health.

Rounded back on a regular DL or at the drive point of any squat is a bad idea.
 
I like double KB front squats. I can back squat a decent amount of weight but I can't think of a time I will ever squat 400 pounds. The stability gained from the total body bracing of the KB front squat seems to have more real world application without putting a ton of undo stress on my near 50 year old body.
 
The Zercher Lift is a great bang for buck. Wether you Zercher Deadlift and Squat, or Snatch Grip Deadlift and lower to the thighs then Zercher Squat.

The Zercher Squat is similar in balance to a Goblet Squat, but can be loaded a lot heavier. As weights get higher I builds toughness because it takes a certain tolerance, and technique, to hold the bar in the crooks of the arms.

I played with the Powe Curl for a while and it fit in nicely with Zerchers and Double KB Cleans.
 
I have to say that I haven't found anything that lights my midsection up like some heavy db KB front squats. The one draw back is you must be comfortable cleaning a pair of heavy bells into place.

@Anna C
Anna C said:
Does that sound right?
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sound right to me. That's the way we teach it for many reasons. what people do when they are "on their own" is a different story. I've seen some pretty incredibly heavy deadlifts with the scariest form you can imagine. It has always made me wonder, "would this guy be able to lift more if he could neutral out that spine"? maybe, maybe not.

However, "spine sparing" is most important for longevity for the vast majority of the population.
 
Anna C said:
I thought (from listening to Dr. Stuart McGill) that the basic principle was to not move the spine under load.

So if you round the back and lift (i.e. Atlas stone lifting) this can be OK, as long as you don't flex/extend while loaded.

But in general the safest thing is to maintain neutral (flat-ish) back, braced, while lifting.

Does that sound right?
Click to expand...


This is exactly how I threw my back out 10 years ago doing back squats. I was at the bottom of the lift when I realized my back was rounded, so I attempted to extend it (or arch it) under load. Bad idea. Never have I been in so much pain, and I've never done back squats again!
 
It's all fun and games until it happens to you! Neutral and braced spine all day long for me. No rounding thank you very much. If you can't pull it from the floor without rounding then pull from a block. Coincidentally, Dr McGill talks about consulting with football teams whose players were getting injured by rounding their backs while pulling from the floor because they didn't have the hip mobility to maintain a neutral spine. I'm biased though I treat busted up backs. The most painfully acute ones I see are usually from lifting something heavy with poor form-and they can take real time and therapy to heal. I would rather not even flirt with the possibility. EMG shows the lumbar musculature cannot support the spine as well when it is flexed.
 
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Interesting... I was re-reading the original article and it says the Zercher is the best squat exercise. Now that I know how to do it properly, I think I might give it a run. PTTP cycle with Zercher squat + bench press. Sounds like a good combo.

I did notice that the guy in the photos within the article isn't doing it the way we were taught in SFL. He's doing more like a goblet squat form. SFL teaches butt back to 8:00 (not down to 6:00 or 7:00), elbows into chest, and touch the bar to the tops of the knees with the chin tucked (neck in line with spine).
 
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Anna C said:
Interesting... I was re-reading the original article and it says the Zercher is the best squat exercise. Now that I know how to do it properly, I think I might give it a run. PTTP cycle with Zercher squat + bench press. Sounds like a good combo.

I did notice that the guy in the photos within the article isn't doing it the way we were taught in SFL. He's doing more like a goblet squat form. SFL teaches butt back to 8:00 (not down to 6:00 or 7:00), elbows into chest, and touch the bar to the tops of the knees with the chin tucked (neck in line with spine).
Click to expand...

@Geoff Chafe started a thread a while back about zercher squats with pttp programming if I recall correctly. Sounds like a good plan. I'm finding my knees get pissed off when I don't squat, so I might consider it after reaching simple
 
Anna C said:
I did notice that the guy in the photos within the article isn't doing it the way we were taught in SFL. He's doing more like a goblet squat form. SFL teaches butt back to 8:00 (not down to 6:00 or 7:00), elbows into chest, and touch the bar to the tops of the knees with the chin tucked (neck in line with spine).
Click to expand...
I don't know if it was covered in the SFL, but when people learn the zercher squat from the full zercher lift you can't do it "wrong". Deadlift it from the floor, lay down the bar on your knees and squat down until you can get the elbows under the bar. If you bring your hips lower than 8 o'clock the bar would roll down your thighs into your lap.
Here's a vid from @Harald Motz that shows the hip position when you start from the floor:
 
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