Barbell Chris Thibaudeau's Neuro Training Type

[Bauer]

TBH, it seems a little like pseudo-science to me.

I'd have to see some actual studies for me to reduce my skepticism.

On any given day, I might self-identify with a different 'type'.

It's catchy marketing, though.

yeah, there might be several underlying and independent dimensions to this, and they might not be stable.

However, the basic idea is: People differ, motivation differs, responsiveness differs. Thus, training styles should fit the individual.

I think his methodology helps with reflecting about that. But it should not become an ideology.

I feel much more attracted to Pavel's programs than to Poliquin's - and CT's reasoning is totally in line with that (type 3 describes me best).

I think Pavel's plans are great for a lot of people, more so than other training styles. But my wife has different training preferences than me and responds differently, so that neurotype thing helps me to reflect how that should affect programming for her.

We could probably simplify this a bit with general questions:
What do you need (to be fit for)?
What do you want from training?
What are your strengths in life?
What kills your motivation?

 

[Molson]

Personally I do believe that those Neurotypes work. If you follow the descriptions on T-Nation I’m quite sure you will be able to put yourself in one or two categories. And a test from Thibaudeau ‘s website would be on a different level. There are also in-between types. But you will never land in all 3 at once as they are too extremely different. It’s a continuum.

You can’t be a harm avoider and a novelty seeker at once.

That’s why people say that CrossFit is more popular between extroverts and Powelifting between introverts.

 

[Molson]

CT’s both parents are psychologists, if I recall correctly. So he is more sensitive to those aspects than most coaches.

 

[IMayAgainKnowChris]

I wonder about the “if you build it they will come” aspect of it though. Like if a type whatever stuck to the other types workout, I’m talking about a DISCIPLINE issue, wouldn’t they still get results? I feel like he’s saying more they won’t like it and won’t do it therefore it won’t work. But that’s a Self discipline issue. Not a programming issue. Interesting stuff though. I like CT.

 

[Molson]

I wonder about the “if you build it they will come” aspect of it though. Like if a type whatever stuck to the other types workout, I’m talking about a DISCIPLINE issue, wouldn’t they still get results? I feel like he’s saying more they won’t like it and won’t do it therefore it won’t work. But that’s a Self discipline issue. Not a programming issue. Interesting stuff though. I like CT.

Well, probably yes. But it comes down to two items:
- for pro guys to you want the most efficient training method (and for many athletes strength training is just a small part of training)
- for regular guys, you want to keep them in the gym rather than, either scare them or bore them, depending on their type/temper

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Catchy Marketing

You say that like it is some type of hype to sell himself or something else.

SolidBrawn

The information that he presented on Charles Poliquin's method of determining certain physical, mental and emotional response to training, falls inline line with Thibaudeau.

What is the most direct means to achieve strength gains specific to the demands of jumping events?

[PDF] What is the most direct means to achieve strength gains specific to the demands of jumping events ? | Semantic Scholar

In an on-going effort to improve training methods for the athletes I coach, I have come across a number of articles regarding strength training for the jumping events. Much of what I find is the same basic information with a slightly different twist, often personalized with some applications or...

pdfs.semanticscholar.org

David Kerin's (Jump Coach) article on training High Jumper is a brilliant piece of work. The theory and concepts of Kerin are applicable to other type of training.

Years ago, I emailed Kerin with questions. One of our discussions involved the different method one High Jumper might use vs another.

One was a more Strength Dominate High Jumper; reliant of strength.

Another group were Neuro Dominate; more effective of turn on the "Super" Fast Type IIb/x muscle fiber and eliciting the Stretch Reflex.

Kerin's resource articles provided even more detailed information.

One of the thing that I have found is that you haven't read all of the article until you read some of the resources or the ones's that you can fine

It's similar to...

Thibaudeau's Reply

It’s the same in sprinting and most track & field events. For example, a guy like Kim Collins was more neural or “reflexive” meaning that he used the stretch reflex much better than most and had a very high ratio of FT fibers that he could easily turned on.

He was 150lbs and never lifted weights, yet was a world class sprinter.

On the other end of the spectrum a guy like Ben Johnson was a poor jumper and sucked at the olympic lifts. He also needed to get really strong to be really fast. He was more of a muscular sprinter.

The Mental and Emotional Side of The Game

This also plays into to a well written training program.

I have a short attention span training. I do better with High Intensity Strength and Power Training Sessions; short training session with limited warm up, and lower volume.

A Powerlfiting buddy of mine, thrives on High Volume Training.

 

[IMayAgainKnowChris]

Well, probably yes. But it comes down to two items:
- for pro guys to you want the most efficient training method (and for many athletes strength training is just a small part of training)
- for regular guys, you want to keep them in the gym rather than, either scare them or bore them, depending on their type/temper

I definitely agree that doing what you enjoy and will stick to is probably “better” for the individual. And you’re def right that the strength is just a small part of training.

About keeping guys in the gym... Only the strong survive! Jkjk. It’s amazing how consistent training definitely developed a sort of mental toughness and general resilience. Almost like strength has a greater purpose...

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I wonder about the “if you build it they will come” aspect of it though. Like if a type whatever stuck to the other types workout, I’m talking about a DISCIPLINE issue, wouldn’t they still get results? I feel like he’s saying more they won’t like it and won’t do it therefore it won’t work. But that’s a Self discipline issue. Not a programming issue. Interesting stuff though. I like CT.

Discipline Issue

It's not quit that simple.

Getting Results

You get some results from any program that you follow.

However, one of the keys to making progress is determine was allows you to optimize your results.

Liking or Not Liking Something

This a huge factor in a training program or doing well with anything else.

You are much more likely to succeed with something you like and enjoy; you stick with it because it's fun for you, you look forward to it.

If you don't like something,. it hard to keep doing it. It not fun, it something you dread.

Vince Taylor, Master's Mr Olympia

One of the best Bodybuilding Leg article that I read and still have is by Vince Taylor.

Talyor said everyone told he had to Squat for legs; it was a must exercise.

Taylor hated Squat.

However, Taylor loved the Leg Press.

Instead he did all kind of Leg Presses: One Leg, Feet high on the platform, feet low on the platform, feet ultra close to together, feet wide, back position farther back, back position up close, etc.

Taylor build great leg with the Leg Press...





The take Home Message

There is usually more than on way to get home to your house or in this case to train.

One of the keys is to find the one you like that works for you and will get you home; to where you want to go.

 

[watchnerd]

Catchy Marketing

You say that like it is some type of hype to sell himself or something else.

Of course it is.

Why do you think he's making videos (with moderately high production value and cost) and writing articles on T-nation? To promote his programs and methods, gain subscribers.

It's all part of content marketing: establish yourself as a trusted advisor by showing thought leadership, with a unique value proposition and selling point.

Many things in the popular, non-academic fitness world are like this.


"Russian Kettlebell Challenge" -- learn 'evil Russian' secrets to fitness previously trapped behind the iron curtain

"Convict Conditioning" -- repackage bodyweight exercises with a prison motif

"Warrior Diet" -- eat like a warrior

"Paleo Diet" -- eat like a caveman

etc etc

"You Gotta Get a Gimmick" and a brand image.

 

[watchnerd]

However, the basic idea is: People differ, motivation differs, responsiveness differs. Thus, training styles should fit the individual.

Sure. Every coach knows this.

Motivation and training response of the athlete are a critical part of coaching.

But I don't see many professional S&C coaches, who get paid to increase performance in a sport, trying to slot people into 5 archetypes.

Instead, they focus on qualities they're trying to improve, program training to build those qualities, and adapt them according to how the athlete responds.

 

[offwidth]

also needed to get really strong to be really fast. He was more of a muscular sprinter.

Didn’t pharma help with that in Ben Johnson’s (and others) case?

 

[Alexander Halford]

Didn’t pharma help with that in Ben Johnson’s (and others) case?

Every case with big money and prestige involved, if I'm allowed to suppose so. Not everyone is getting caught - for some different reasons. That's why all these WADA stories and bans make me laugh.

 

[Hung]

I don't see many professional S&C coaches, who get paid to increase performance in a sport, trying to slot people into 5 archetypes.

Instead, they focus on qualities they're trying to improve, program training to build those qualities, and adapt them according to how the athlete responds.

Lucky that I'm not professional S&C coaches (but I'm a professional student of strength ), and I'm quite eager to apply this one after I understand it more correctly.
I agree with what you said, I try to "focus on qualities I'm trying to improve, program training to build those qualities, and adapt them according to how I respond". Having some knowledge about neurotransmitters hopefully will speed up that process.

 

[watchnerd]

Having some knowledge about neurotransmitters hopefully will speed up that process.

But with a datapoint of one, how will you know?

But, yeah, that's what I do with myself.

....and wiithout the need for a theory about neurotransmitters or psychochemistry.

Just empirical observation about what is working best.

 

[Hung]

You can do blood test to get the data. But another problem is you still not know how effective your receptors with certain types of neurotransmitters...
One of the theories (which C.Tb had mentioned) to handle that is, the lower number of a neurotransmitter is, the more sensitive the corresponding receptor; and the lifter will respond best with the type of training that triggers that type of neurotransmitter.
The work of the lifter is now figuring out which type of training/exercise/food will do that.

Anyway, I believe that theories and data are helpful for us to develop our own understanding about the objects. But it is fine if you don't use those. Eachs choose for their own.

 

[IMayAgainKnowChris]

What about the “type C”. The Comrade type. Thrives best doing 2 exercises every day until he/she gets strong enough to make 8k jumps. Will press a lot if they press a lot. Lol.
I could argue that the plan that works best is the one that you stick to. Could also say that just because you’re not mentally tough enough to do something you don’t like consistently doesn’t mean it won’t work.

Not trying to overly criticize CT’s chicken blood and tea leaf reading method. But I’m genuinely asking if certain people ACTUALLY physiologically respond better with different training or does this just boil down to a “if you like the program you’ll do better with it” situation?

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Didn’t pharma help with that in Ben Johnson’s (and others) case?

Absolutely. That true for just of all sports and the majority of the elite athletes.

As Alexander Halford stated, money is a bit part of what divers it and testing is a joke.

As Bill Starr, former Olympic Lifter, American Deadlift Record Holder, Strength Coach) stated in his book, Deflying Gravity" stated, "Someone will always find a way to beat the system.

The documentary Icarus went into that with one IOC official reinforced what Starr stated, "Someone will always find a way to be the system."

Lance Armstrong nor Alex Rodriguez ever tested positive. Someone ratted them out.

The International Cycling Union (UCI) stripped took away Armstrong first places. That should have meant that everyone else in the placings move up a stop. However, that didn't happen because the ICU basically stated that everyone else was taking something.

 

[offwidth]

Icarus was pretty interesting.
I‘ve been in the cycling world for decades so I am well aware of the role doping has played on the sport.

I know that you are not saying it; but doesn’t mean it’s ‘right’ just because ‘everyone’ does it though.

Money and fame...

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I‘ve been in the cycling world for decades so I am well aware of the role doping has played on the sport.

I realized that since you are a bike, that you were familiar with the doping.

I know that you are not saying it; but doesn’t mean it’s ‘right’ just because ‘everyone’ does it though.

It doesn't make it right it is against the rules.

It isn't right that that penalized Lance Armstrong and didn't do so with the other; who they knew were doping, as well.

What's kind of message does that send.

I am a proponent of letting athletes take whatever "Supplements" they like. They are going to do it anyway.

Have two organizations; Tested and Non-Tested.

We've been losing the "War On Drugs" for decades; wasting money on war we will never win and are now even further behind.

With that said, I am a proponent of legalizing drug. If someone want it bad enough, they will find a way to get it.

At least we could tax and have some control of the drugs.

 

[IMayAgainKnowChris]

I realized that since you are a bike, that you were familiar with the doping.



It doesn't make it right it is against the rules.

It isn't right that that penalized Lance Armstrong and didn't do so with the other; who they knew were doping, as well.

What's kind of message does that send.

I am a proponent of letting athletes take whatever "Supplements" they like. They are going to do it anyway.

Have two organizations; Tested and Non-Tested.

We've been losing the "War On Drugs" for decades; wasting money on war we will never win and are now even further behind.

With that said, I am a proponent of legalizing drug. If someone want it bad enough, they will find a way to get it.

At least we could tax and have some control of the drugs.

Not to send this covo in a completely different direction but... As a recovering heroin, crack and methamphetamine addict I totally agree with you on the like “recreational” drug side of things. Nothing would have stopped me when I was in that world. No amount of laws or punishment for getting busted ever stopped me.
As far as performance enhancing drugs... I’ve always been so annoyed with non-disclosure from fitness gurus about the use of that stuff. Don’t care who does them but realistically if you Open any grocery store muscle magazine and read all the training and diet plans and try to implement them without PEDs see how close you come to looking like those people.