Kettlebell Club is King

[jayjo]

I now split my workouts between Kettlebell, Heavy Club and Steel Mace.
With Kettlebell I do only once per week, either Swings & Get Ups or Swings & Presses.
Heavy Club one day I do Shield Casts, Circles and Pendulums.
Heavy Club other day I do Ballance Squats and Front Press.
Mace I am still figuring out how to string together a bulky looking flow.

But I think I get the most muscle pump from the Club. Its the best way for me to get yoked since my long ago break up with bodybuilding.

I think if I could pick only one modality it would be Club. It jacks my arms, chest and back. And it heals my low back I think because of the cross body twisting under load (Spinal Engine Theory).

 

[Halfakneecap]

I have a few but haven’t spent too much time with them. Really need to dedicate a day a week to then for a good 6-8 weeks and see. Just basic 360 I feel on my whole upper back for days.

 

[Cyrus-II]

I’ve been fooling around with Indian clubs now for a couple of months. Just last night I did inside/outside circles, shield casts or whatever the heck they are called and a couple different mills with a 3lb club for over ten minutes straight without setting down the club.

I see it as more of a mobility movement and it does seems to help my low back and bad SI joint.

I could see getting into heavy clubs but for now I’m sticking to my kettlebells three times a week. I just wish the buy-in on clubs wasn’t so uh…heavy. I’d prefer to get an Adex, I think. But for now I’m sticking to two days of S&S with one IC in the middle of the week, then other calisthenics and mobility work spread out the other days of the week.

One day of rest where I don’t do anything except maybe a little mobility and stretching work.

 

[bluejeff]

I have long been intrigued in what I can only describe as "away from center of gravity training." That is, training with weights held away from the body. Clubs and maces seem to fit the bill, but I have yet to go in on buying some.

What would y'all recommend for getting into clubs? Which to buy? What training materials to use? Opinions on maces vs clubs (two handed vs one handed, as I understand it)? Both seem...well, fun!

Pavel described the kettlebell (somewhere?) as "being like swinging a broadsword." So maces and clubs seem like it natural extensions of that. They sound fun, and the effect of training with the weight away from your center of mass seems interesting too.

Plus carrying a big iron mace downstairs in the elevator (to go use it outside) sounds funny

 

[Pasibrzuch]

I have long been intrigued in what I can only describe as "away from center of gravity training." That is, training with weights held away from the body. Clubs and maces seem to fit the bill, but I have yet to go in on buying some.

What would y'all recommend for getting into clubs? Which to buy? What training materials to use? Opinions on maces vs clubs (two handed vs one handed, as I understand it)? Both seem...well, fun!

Pavel described the kettlebell (somewhere?) as "being like swinging a broadsword." So maces and clubs seem like it natural extensions of that. They sound fun, and the effect of training with the weight away from your center of mass seems interesting too.

Plus carrying a big iron mace downstairs in the elevator (to go use it outside) sounds funny

I would start with an 8kg steel club regardless of your weight and strength level. Start with very basic exercises like narrow spli squat in order position and do some hip turns in order position.

But I think I get the most muscle pump from the Club. Its the best way for me to get yoked since my long ago break up with bodybuilding.

I don't know if the pump is a good indicator of hypertrophy. I use clubbells as my bodybuilding tool, but at the end of a training session where I do some big barbell lift )in my case front squats) for the hormonal response.

 

[Cyrus-II]

I have long been intrigued in what I can only describe as "away from center of gravity training." That is, training with weights held away from the body. Clubs and maces seem to fit the bill, but I have yet to go in on buying some.

What would y'all recommend for getting into clubs? Which to buy? What training materials to use? Opinions on maces vs clubs (two handed vs one handed, as I understand it)? Both seem...well, fun!

Pavel described the kettlebell (somewhere?) as "being like swinging a broadsword." So maces and clubs seem like it natural extensions of that. They sound fun, and the effect of training with the weight away from your center of mass seems interesting too.

Plus carrying a big iron mace downstairs in the elevator (to go use it outside) sounds funny

I think this is probably the cheapest buy-in you're going to get on heavy clubs;



I'm a tightwad. I went so far as to go price everything at a local hardware store and it was close to $50, but I still just couldn't bring myself to do it. (Ace is the place for the helpful hardware man...)

I still haven't decided how far down the club swinging rabbit hole I want to go. If I didn't have wife and kids and house payment and all that I don't think there is any doubt I wouldn't just get an Adex and add on weights as I progressed. It's just that booger is expensive.

I can attest to this though that there is something to swinging club like devices that just plain fun.

 

[jayjo]

Mark Wildman is my youtube guro. I've taken his advice. He says begin with a 15-lbs. Club.
Onnit and most brands make a Club that looks like a long bowling pin. I much prefer the longer clubs that look like a fat baseball bat from Tacfit. Also Tacfit clubs are made in Brazil (vs. China). The adjustable Adex clubs are costly and when I see youtube videos of them they are usually wrapped in duct tape so I assume they jiggle.

Mace begin with a 10-lbs. I don't think the brand matters they all look the same. I have a Tacfit though.

NOTE I learned the hard way...don't skip. I thought I could skip an intermediate weight and save money. Injury every time. Club goes 15, then 20 then 25. Mace goes 10 then 15 then 20. Can't skip a weight.

 

[bluejeff]

Wait, now I am a bit confused. I thought the mace was the longer version that you would use two hands with, and the clubs were the smaller version, meant to be used in one hand. But you all are saying that the mace is lighter?

 

[bluejeff]

I think this is probably the cheapest buy-in you're going to get on heavy clubs;



I'm a tightwad. I went so far as to go price everything at a local hardware store and it was close to $50, but I still just couldn't bring myself to do it. (Ace is the place for the helpful hardware man...)

I still haven't decided how far down the club swinging rabbit hole I want to go. If I didn't have wife and kids and house payment and all that I don't think there is any doubt I wouldn't just get an Adex and add on weights as I progressed. It's just that booger is expensive.

I can attest to this though that there is something to swinging club like devices that just plain fun.

Also, I love some DIY. Might be looking into this.

 

[Adachi]

Wait, now I am a bit confused. I thought the mace was the longer version that you would use two hands with, and the clubs were the smaller version, meant to be used in one hand. But you all are saying that the mace is lighter?

Yes it happens to be the case the maces are usually sold at the lightest for this kind of work 10 lbs. The polar moment of inertia at a greater distance will yield a higher virtual weight for some movements.

There are lighter clubs but from what I've seen the common recommended weight of 15 lbs correlates with a focus on shoulders and elbows. Lighter bells seem to have a home with recovery mobility and wrist/rotation-specific movements.

 

[jayjo]

Wait, now I am a bit confused. I thought the mace was the longer version that you would use two hands with, and the clubs were the smaller version, meant to be used in one hand. But you all are saying that the mace is lighter?

The longer the lever, the greater the weight feels. Kettlebell is much lighter than barbell because its moving so the velocity increases the perceived weight. Club also moves with velocity but its much longer, the weight being farther away from the body. So Pavel says men should begin with a 35-lbs. KB and Wildman says men should begin with a 15-lbs. Club. I think that is correct. MACE is longer, so the perceived weight is much greater when swinging it (in a 360 swing). There are other movements you can do with Mace where the weight will not seem like much. I can do a 25 lbs. Club Sheild Cast but same movement with a 20-lbs. Mace injured my elbow. I don't know the math, but YES, Mace needs to start lighter. I would get a 10-lbs.

 

[Cyrus-II]

The longer the lever, the greater the weight feels. Kettlebell is much lighter than barbell because its moving so the velocity increases the perceived weight. Club also moves with velocity but its much longer, the weight being farther away from the body. So Pavel says men should begin with a 35-lbs. KB and Wildman says men should begin with a 15-lbs. Club. I think that is correct. MACE is longer, so the perceived weight is much greater when swinging it (in a 360 swing). There are other movements you can do with Mace where the weight will not seem like much. I can do a 25 lbs. Club Sheild Cast but same movement with a 20-lbs. Mace injured my elbow. I don't know the math, but YES, Mace needs to start lighter. I would get a 10-lbs.

I think Wildman also says to start that 15lbs with the intent of using it predominantly for two hand movements, right?

I know I’ve watched a bunch of his stuff too and IIRC he believes people need a good couple of years sticking to the basics. Which is why I’m only messing with Indian clubs right now. Even a 3lb’er using one handed still makes me feel it in places I never expected a day or two later.

 

[jayjo]

I think more needs to said on the differences between 2 and 1 hand club.
I can do a 2-arm Sheild Cast with 25 lbs. But I cannot do even 1-arm with a 10-lbs. Club.
On the other hand, during a Circle and Pendulum, I cannot keep my arm straight during 2-hand movements and that is bad for elbows. It sounds complicated but because of my lack of thoricic mobility, I cannot lift my shoulder high enough to straighten my arm. That is not an issue in 1-hand movements. But in Sheild Casts where the elbows stay bent, I need both arms for stability.
So I do 2-arm Shield Casts high reps for conditioning. And 1-arm Circles and Pendulums low reps for strength.

 

[Cyrus-II]

I think more needs to said on the differences between 2 and 1 hand club.
I can do a 2-arm Sheild Cast with 25 lbs. But I cannot do even 1-arm with a 10-lbs. Club.
On the other hand, during a Circle and Pendulum, I cannot keep my arm straight during 2-hand movements and that is bad for elbows. It sounds complicated but because of my lack of thoricic mobility, I cannot lift my shoulder high enough to straighten my arm. That is not an issue in 1-hand movements. But in Sheild Casts where the elbows stay bent, I need both arms for stability.
So I do 2-arm Shield Casts high reps for conditioning. And 1-arm Circles and Pendulums low reps for strength.

Very interesting.

I think I'll just stick to the 3lb Indian club I have for now for one-arm work. I'm mainly using it as a prehap/rehab mobility therapy, and am just trying to focus on form.
When I started playing with them a couple of months ago it was because my SI joint was acting up, and an old police baton a buddy gave me...I was just playing around with it doing inside/outside circles and within a day or so it really helped alleviate the chronic dull pain I'd had for a couple weeks. I wasn't able to get into my chiro during that time. After that experience I got three pairs of 1,2,3lb light clubs.

Because of that I started researching clubs and now take them more seriously.

Light clubs vs heavy clubs are both still very different. I've noticed Wildman's stuff he's for spinal rotation. 45 at the hips and 45 at the shoulder for his "circles". Whereas most light Indian club works it's about anti-rotation and core "locking" for lack of a better term. I believe both can be beneficial, but I'm very careful about rotation. I know Stu McGill found disc delamination with too much twisting work. I think it was those slosh tube things several years ago.

I'm still learning.

 

[Wes Yeary]

One-arm club is basically to try to eliminate imbalances in strength. I'm right-handed and the difference in strength between arms becomes readily apparent with one-arm clubbing. Start with your weaker arm; if you can do it with your weaker arm, you can do it with your stronger arm. I've got a 20 lb club I use for two-handed and a 15 lb for one-handed. I'm slowly working the 20 in for one-handed stuff. I can do shield casts, pendulums, circles, but I still tire out easily with the 20 one-handed.
Indian clubs and heavy clubs are totally different things.
@jayjo Indian clubs are wonderful for elbow difficulties, but I'm not sure you have to buy one. You can find exercises on YouTube for treating golfer's/tennis elbow using Indian clubs, but I've done the same exercises with things like a wiffle ball bat.

 

[Cody Long]

When it comes to clubs and maces, these are my go-to coaches on YouTube:

• Coach Vaughn
• Mark Wildman
• Summer Huntington
• The Flowing Dutchman

 

[TedM]

Very interesting.

I think I'll just stick to the 3lb Indian club I have for now for one-arm work. I'm mainly using it as a prehap/rehab mobility therapy, and am just trying to focus on form.
When I started playing with them a couple of months ago it was because my SI joint was acting up, and an old police baton a buddy gave me...I was just playing around with it doing inside/outside circles and within a day or so it really helped alleviate the chronic dull pain I'd had for a couple weeks. I wasn't able to get into my chiro during that time. After that experience I got three pairs of 1,2,3lb light clubs.

Because of that I started researching clubs and now take them more seriously.

Light clubs vs heavy clubs are both still very different. I've noticed Wildman's stuff he's for spinal rotation. 45 at the hips and 45 at the shoulder for his "circles". Whereas most light Indian club works it's about anti-rotation and core "locking" for lack of a better term. I believe both can be beneficial, but I'm very careful about rotation. I know Stu McGill found disc delamination with too much twisting work. I think it was those slosh tube things several years ago.

I'm still learning.

I bought a pair of 1.5 pound wooden circa 1910 Spalding ones.on ebay for $40 including domestic US shipping. Beautiful things to hold and swing.
I bought Brett Jones intto to Indian Clubs training video from the good folks at FMS. It's great to learn new movements thst are actually quite ancient

 

[Wes Yeary]

What would y'all recommend for getting into clubs? Which to buy? What training materials to use? Opinions on maces vs clubs (two handed vs one handed, as I understand it)? Both seem...well, fun!

When I started, I bought a 15 lb club from Titan. Free shipping. I still use it almost every day. My 20 is from Onnit, but I have a 5, 10, and 15 from Titan that are just fine. I would start with watching basic instruction for inside/outside circles from Mark Wildman (there are other good coaches, but Mark's the one who got me into clubs). Then watch instruction for shield cast. Then you can move on to other things, like pendulum and whatnot. I'd start with using two hands; I used the 15 for both one- and two-handed when I started.
I'd begin with a club. Mark has a video explaining why, and if I can remember correctly, he said the club moves transfer to the mace better than mace moves transfer to club (which I take to mean that mace is generally [or can be] more complex, so it's better to learn the simpler club moves first).

 

[Golder]

For the past 6 months or so I’ve been doing S&S as my main course, most days, and doing a combo of KB and single arm heavy club as my accessory / GTG work.
It’s been a great combo. I really like combo of flow, rotational training, grip, and one sided work. It helps me feel more athletic as well as strong. I think the swinging ballistic nature has improved my joint health. Plus the fact that the progression possibility is near endless keeps it interesting and engaging.
Works great for 5-15 mini workouts during the day.
A great mental reset / focus tool.

 

[morning_star]

For the past 6 months or so I’ve been doing S&S as my main course, most days, and doing a combo of KB and single arm heavy club as my accessory / GTG work.
It’s been a great combo. I really like combo of flow, rotational training, grip, and one sided work. It helps me feel more athletic as well as strong. I think the swinging ballistic nature has improved my joint health. Plus the fact that the progression possibility is near endless keeps it interesting and engaging.
Works great for 5-15 mini workouts during the day.
A great mental reset / focus tool.

What movements do you do with the club? Any starter videos you could share?