Kettlebell Club is King

[Golder]

What movements do you do with the club? Any starter videos you could share?

With single arm heavy club, I do a lot of Inside and Outside Circles, Shield Cast, Pullovers (and variations, cleans, swings, side to side swings, low-to-high swings and cleans.

I’d start simple and add movements / complexity slowly. It’s too easy to knock yourself in the face or knees and totally ruin your day if you’re not fully paying attention, so I like to get a lot of reps in with a movement before progressing onward.

I highly recommend Mark Wildman’s YouTube channel. He has a playlist focused on One-Am Heavy Club.
Great instruction. Most of what I’ve learned has even from going thru his instructional sequence. And a lil healthy experimentation.

He recommends 15# as a starting point for men, but I found the 10# to be a better starting weight, as I mostly skipped over 2 Handed work (I really wanted a 1 handed tool).
I find cycling between 10 and 15# works great for me. It allows me to get more time / reps / time under tension in.

I hope that helps! Good luck and let us know how it goes!

Hopefully this links to the single arm heavy club series:

 

[jayjo]

When it comes to clubs and maces, these are my go-to coaches on YouTube:

• Coach Vaughn
• Mark Wildman
• Summer Huntington
• The Flowing Dutchman

Yes I've watched videos from all of them. Wildman for Club. The other 3 for Mace.

 

[Ben Strong]

PSA: Mark Wildman's "Introduction to Heavy Clubs" course is the daily deal right now over at Strongandfit.com for the next 13 hours. I just picked it up myself. It's reduced down to $24.25 and they currently have a coupon code for 48% off of that, so you can snag it for $12.61.

Comes with an e-book that contains the programming and tracking sheets and then instructional videos on all the various moves. On first glance, I like the way it is laid out. Slightly more complexity to it than just doing shield cast, inside circle, and outside circle like I have been doing on club/mace days.

 

[Ben Strong]

I have only really used clubs movements in the lighter range of the spectrum in the past. I have used a 10 lb sledge and my 10 pound mace to approximate a lot of the stuff that Mark Wildman discusses (inside/outside circles, pendulums, mills, shield cast, etc). I am now considering getting a heavier club to work some of the two handed movements at a higher weight range. I know Mark recommends the 15 lb. club for most starting out. However, I have been looking at the old model tacfit clubs with the rubber coating. These are out of stock for the 15 but they have a 20 available on amazon.

My question is this.... For those that have some experience with the two hand clubbing, would someone who is proficient with a 10 lb weight in club moves and also kettlebell training be able to utilize a 20 lb club? Or is that too much of a jump? If you think it's too big a jump, do you know of any other sellers who offer rubber coated clubs like the tacfit/RMAX intl clubs?

 

[Steve W.]

I have only really used clubs movements in the lighter range of the spectrum in the past. I have used a 10 lb sledge and my 10 pound mace to approximate a lot of the stuff that Mark Wildman discusses (inside/outside circles, pendulums, mills, shield cast, etc). I am now considering getting a heavier club to work some of the two handed movements at a higher weight range. I know Mark recommends the 15 lb. club for most starting out. However, I have been looking at the old model tacfit clubs with the rubber coating. These are out of stock for the 15 but they have a 20 available on amazon.

My question is this.... For those that have some experience with the two hand clubbing, would someone who is proficient with a 10 lb weight in club moves and also kettlebell training be able to utilize a 20 lb club? Or is that too much of a jump? If you think it's too big a jump, do you know of any other sellers who offer rubber coated clubs like the tacfit/RMAX intl clubs?

For two hands, 20lbs is still pretty light. 15lbs is a good starter weight for one-handed drills. That's what I started with back in the day when Rmax clubbells first came out. Using 15lbs for two-handed drills seems ridiculously light. I learned all one-handed drills first, starting with 15lbs and then transitioning to 25lbs (20lb clubbells did not exist at the time). Then I started incorporating two-handed drills when I got a 35lb clubbell, although I also used 25lbs as a light weight to learn new two-handed patterns.

I really like the Rmax clubbells because they are longer than most of the ones from other brands, which almost always seem way too short to me. Longer clubs are not only harder for a given weight, but also have a more natural and enjoyable feel. Too short a club loses the "swing" which is the whole point of club of mace training. As long as you have clearance to swing the club in an arc toward the ground, the longer the better.

I just got one of the new generation of Rmax/Tacfit clubbells and I like it a lot, but it isn't rubber coated, if that's important to you. I'm not even sure they're still producing the old style. My impression is they're just selling off existing stock, although I don't know this for a fact. Another brand of coated clubs that have nice dimensions (not too short) are Oates Specialties TAP Bell Clubs. The coating is closer to firm plastic than the urethane of the Rmax clubbells, but it's certainly softer than bare metal. The TAP Bell Clubs have a textured rubberized handle, which gives good grip and works well with chalk, but it tends to shed black dust on my hands, which is a bit annoying.

 

[Chris Mills]

I have tacfit clubs 15, 20, and 25. Started with 20 (that I found used), and picked up a 15 because I couldn’t do 1-arm shield casts with it. It did not take me very long to get up to using the 25 with 1-hand. I actually started looking at heavier for 2-hand but can’t bring myself to hit “complete purchase”.

I would think that a jump to 2-hands with 20 would be no problem.

 

[Ben Strong]

For two hands, 20lbs is still pretty light. 15lbs is a good starter weight for one-handed drills. That's what I started with back in the day when Rmax clubbells first came out. Using 15lbs for two-handed drills seems ridiculously light. I learned all one-handed drills first, starting with 15lbs and then transitioning to 25lbs (20lb clubbells did not exist at the time). Then I started incorporating two-handed drills when I got a 35lb clubbell, although I also used 25lbs as a light weight to learn new two-handed patterns.

I really like the Rmax clubbells because they are longer than most of the ones from other brands, which almost always seem way too short to me. Longer clubs are not only harder for a given weight, but also have a more natural and enjoyable feel. Too short a club loses the "swing" which is the whole point of club of mace training. As long as you have clearance to swing the club in an arc toward the ground, the longer the better.

I just got one of the new generation of Rmax/Tacfit clubbells and I like it a lot, but it isn't rubber coated, if that's important to you. I'm not even sure they're still producing the old style. My impression is they're just selling off existing stock, although I don't know this for a fact. Another brand of coated clubs that have nice dimensions (not too short) are Oates Specialties TAP Bell Clubs. The coating is closer to firm plastic than the urethane of the Rmax clubbells, but it's certainly softer than bare metal. The TAP Bell Clubs have a textured rubberized handle, which gives good grip and works well with chalk, but it tends to shed black dust on my hands, which is a bit annoying.

@Steve W. this is very valuable insight, thank you for posting your thoughts! It's always good to hear from someone with some experience. I think the recommendation that Mark Wildman gives for starting with 15 lbs. is very generalized and he is considering that many listeners may be completely deconditioned to club movements and therefore suggesting a conservative starting weight. It is reassuring to hear that a 20 or 25 may be a good starting place.

As far as the urethane bells, I was primarily interested in those simply because I train in my home on soapstone floors. I thought the urethane coating would be helpful to avoid scratching and cracking the floors when setting it down repeatedly. But not totally necessary. It does seem they are selling off the remaining stock of the old generation clubs which seems to be why the selection is so limited.

I have tacfit clubs 15, 20, and 25. Started with 20 (that I found used), and picked up a 15 because I couldn’t do 1-arm shield casts with it. It did not take me very long to get up to using the 25 with 1-hand. I actually started looking at heavier for 2-hand but can’t bring myself to hit “complete purchase”.

I would think that a jump to 2-hands with 20 would be no problem.

@Chris Mills again, thanks for this valuable insight. I appreciate hearing from folks who have some experience with the heavier club training. Thinking that I will go with the 20 or a 25 if I can find it and continue to use my 10 lb. mace for one handed movements and build volume with that to bridge to the heavier weight.

 

[Paul R]

Tacfit aren't getting rid of the original rubber coated model anytime soon. At least that's what they told me the other month when enquiring about the availability of the 10lbs model. They told me it would take at least 8 weeks for their manufacturer to make a new batch.

If you're in the US and you can't wait, you can email them to check if they have the weight you want in their warehouse. But it won't be as cheap as Amazon because you'll have to cover shipping. They found a 10lbs for me, but shipping to UK was more than the club itself so I passed.

Check out this review on the new generation model, it's what made me decide against it that model with it slipping out of his hand. .

I've been glad I got the rubber coated model because a couple of times in the beginning I'd hit myself when trying moves I wasn't ready for. It still hurt, but not as much as if it was solid metal. And it definitely protects the wooden floor when setting it down.

When I initially tried the 15lb two-handed I thought it was heavy. But then I bought a few maces and suddenly the 15lbs was light for two-hands, and soon found myself buying the 20lbs and 25lbs clubs. Actually, just playing with 360s with maces is what led to me being able to shield cast the 15lbs one-handed. So depending on what you want to do, you could consider a mace while you wait for the club weight you want. Could even choke up on the handle if you really want to do inside and outside circles.

 

[Steve W.]

Tacfit aren't getting rid of the original rubber coated model anytime soon. At least that's what they told me the other month when enquiring about the availability of the 10lbs model. They told me it would take at least 8 weeks for their manufacturer to make a new batch.

If you're in the US and you can't wait, you can email them to check if they have the weight you want in their warehouse. But it won't be as cheap as Amazon because you'll have to cover shipping. They found a 10lbs for me, but shipping to UK was more than the club itself so I passed.

Check out this review on the new generation model, it's what made me decide against it that model with it slipping out of his hand. .

I've been glad I got the rubber coated model because a couple of times in the beginning I'd hit myself when trying moves I wasn't ready for. It still hurt, but not as much as if it was solid metal. And it definitely protects the wooden floor when setting it down.

When I initially tried the 15lb two-handed I thought it was heavy. But then I bought a few maces and suddenly the 15lbs was light for two-hands, and soon found myself buying the 20lbs and 25lbs clubs. Actually, just playing with 360s with maces is what led to me being able to shield cast the 15lbs one-handed. So depending on what you want to do, you could consider a mace while you wait for the club weight you want. Could even choke up on the handle if you really want to do inside and outside circles.

This is an old video and NEITHER of the models shown in the video is still in production.

A little history on the Rmax/Tacfit/CST clubbells:
The first generation of clubbells was made in the USA by Torque Athletic. These had the urethane coating and the handles had a relatively smooth coating with no knurling. I have several of these, and a lot of experience with them.

The next generation used the same urethane-coated pattern, but was made in China and the handles had a slightly rougher coating (but not knurled). I also have several of these, and a lot of experience with them.

Then they came out with a separate line of clubbells labelled "Tacfit" (the ones shown in the video), and the existing urethane-coated clubbells were referred to as "CST" (which also refers generally to the Rmax system of Circular Strength Training). These new "Tacfit" clubbells had no urethane coating, came in kilogram increments, and had knurled handles (which John Sifferman in the video found problematic). I have never handled one of the "Tacfit" clubbells so I have no opinion about them, and they are no longer sold anyway.

At some point after Rmax dropped the "Tacfit" model, they started producing the original pattern with a knurled grip. The original pattern clubbells in the video are the older ones WITHOUT knurling, but any of the urethane coated ones you get now would have knurled handles. I have not personally handled this iteration.

Recently Rmax came out with a new "new generation" line. This line seems somewhat similar to the short-lived "Tacfit" clubbells, kilogram increments, with no urethane coating and knurled handles, although they have an integrated pommel and not a separate bolted-on knob. I have one of these and don't find the knurling problematic at all. In fact, I prefer it. Since I have no experience with the previous "Tacfit" knurling or the current urethane-coated knurling, I don't know how they all compare, but I like the current new generation knurling just fine.

Both types of the older non-knurled coated handles are too smooth for my taste (John Sifferman complains about them in the video too) and don't have a good grip, even with chalk. I eventually started wrapping the handles of my older clubbells with gaffer's tape, which does provide a decent grip and works well with chalk. Gaffer's tape also peels off cleanly without leaving a residue so it's easy to replace it when necessary.

To me, the current new generation knurling (which may be the same as the current urethane-coated knurling if they are both current production) is a big improvement. I still use chalk with it, but I don't have to tape it like I do with the old smoother coated handles.

 

[Paul R]

This is an old video and NEITHER of the models shown in the video is still in production.

A little history on the Rmax/Tacfit/CST clubbells:

Thanks for correcting that! I never came across any of that information when I was trying to decide on what to buy, and I thought I searched a lot. Well at least now what you wrote can help someone else in their club buying decision.

 

[Halfakneecap]

I’ve started ( re ) doing single arm mills this week because of this thread. I’ve never regularly trained with them but with a current tight trap issue and the fact I have a 2kg and 2 x 6kg I probably should start. I’ve just been doing 5 as a warmup with the 2kg to get the feel of the form, then just do 5 each side with the 6kg. I have no idea why I bought a 2nd 6kg haha. One 6 feels heavy, and just holding 2 x 6kg feels like a lot more weight.

Any slower grind type work I can do with 2x6kg? Keep in mind I’m quite new to them

Or mobility?

 

[korcun]

Do you think there is a benefit going beyond 10 kg / 22 lbs for single arm movements (Inside and Outside Circles, Shield Cast, Pullovers, etc.) for GPP? Or do heavier clubs become more of a feat of strength with no carry over to GPP.


Context:
Currently owning the 10 kg / 22 lbs Club for single arm movements at easy 15-20 reps and wondering if I really need a 15 kg or if thats just the point of dimishing returns.

 

[Ben Strong]

Tacfit aren't getting rid of the original rubber coated model anytime soon. At least that's what they told me the other month when enquiring about the availability of the 10lbs model. They told me it would take at least 8 weeks for their manufacturer to make a new batch.

If you're in the US and you can't wait, you can email them to check if they have the weight you want in their warehouse. But it won't be as cheap as Amazon because you'll have to cover shipping. They found a 10lbs for me, but shipping to UK was more than the club itself so I passed.

Check out this review on the new generation model, it's what made me decide against it that model with it slipping out of his hand. .

I've been glad I got the rubber coated model because a couple of times in the beginning I'd hit myself when trying moves I wasn't ready for. It still hurt, but not as much as if it was solid metal. And it definitely protects the wooden floor when setting it down.

When I initially tried the 15lb two-handed I thought it was heavy. But then I bought a few maces and suddenly the 15lbs was light for two-hands, and soon found myself buying the 20lbs and 25lbs clubs. Actually, just playing with 360s with maces is what led to me being able to shield cast the 15lbs one-handed. So depending on what you want to do, you could consider a mace while you wait for the club weight you want. Could even choke up on the handle if you really want to do inside and outside circles.

Thanks, this is good to know! I definitely don't want to be cracking our stone floors with a steel club. Would be a terrible pain to replace. Perhaps impossible to replace. Not sure I can source the same stone anymore in our state. Thankfully most kettlebell moves are easy enough to set the weight down on a foam mat after completing so that hasn't been too much of a problem.

I do have a 10-lb steel mace and have found it's pretty easy to do single hand club stuff with it by choking up about 8 inches from the bottom of the handle as you said. I am sort of taller (6'2") so this isn't usually much of a problem and has let me get used to the movements with a longer lever length. Another option I can recommend is a 10-lb sledgehammer. I have a short handled one that I use sometimes but it's definitely shorter than a club so sort of a different leverage and feel.

 

[Ben Strong]

This is an old video and NEITHER of the models shown in the video is still in production.

A little history on the Rmax/Tacfit/CST clubbells:
The first generation of clubbells was made in the USA by Torque Athletic. These had the urethane coating and the handles had a relatively smooth coating with no knurling. I have several of these, and a lot of experience with them.

The next generation used the same urethane-coated pattern, but was made in China and the handles had a slightly rougher coating (but not knurled). I also have several of these, and a lot of experience with them.

Then they came out with a separate line of clubbells labelled "Tacfit" (the ones shown in the video), and the existing urethane-coated clubbells were referred to as "CST" (which also refers generally to the Rmax system of Circular Strength Training). These new "Tacfit" clubbells had no urethane coating, came in kilogram increments, and had knurled handles (which John Sifferman in the video found problematic). I have never handled one of the "Tacfit" clubbells so I have no opinion about them, and they are no longer sold anyway.

At some point after Rmax dropped the "Tacfit" model, they started producing the original pattern with a knurled grip. The original pattern clubbells in the video are the older ones WITHOUT knurling, but any of the urethane coated ones you get now would have knurled handles. I have not personally handled this iteration.

Recently Rmax came out with a new "new generation" line. This line seems somewhat similar to the short-lived "Tacfit" clubbells, kilogram increments, with no urethane coating and knurled handles, although they have an integrated pommel and not a separate bolted-on knob. I have one of these and don't find the knurling problematic at all. In fact, I prefer it. Since I have no experience with the previous "Tacfit" knurling or the current urethane-coated knurling, I don't know how they all compare, but I like the current new generation knurling just fine.

Both types of the older non-knurled coated handles are too smooth for my taste (John Sifferman complains about them in the video too) and don't have a good grip, even with chalk. I eventually started wrapping the handles of my older clubbells with gaffer's tape, which does provide a decent grip and works well with chalk. Gaffer's tape also peels off cleanly without leaving a residue so it's easy to replace it when necessary.

To me, the current new generation knurling (which may be the same as the current urethane-coated knurling if they are both current production) is a big improvement. I still use chalk with it, but I don't have to tape it like I do with the old smoother coated handles.

Thanks for this! Super helpful. I find the RMAX/CST/TACFIT brand's online presence to be needlessly confusing so I'm saving this to have as a reference.