Discomfort experienced doing Hypoxic Breath Holds from Second Wind

[Luwuwu]

Greetings, Strong Men and Women.
I have been doing hypoxic breath hold exercises for quite a while. Though many benefits are seen, I was always experiencing some discomfort when doing them. I wonder if there is anyone else that has the same feelings. Are they supposed to be felt during hypoxic breath hold training? I would like to discuss a little about it.
What I was experiencing includes：
1. Pressure to the eardrum from the inside out.
2. A tendency to incontinence, though I maintained control and never actually peed in my pants.
Thank you very much !

 

[intheways]

I have not gone all the way through Second Wind yet, but I have been working on breath holds for spearfishing.

1. As for the eardrum pain, maybe that is due to not using your glottis to hold your breath and/or trying to take in too much air. You could try taking in less air and just focus on relaxing through contractions.

2. Feelings of incontinence during breath holds are completely normal. It signifies that you are starting to access the mammalian diving reflex.

 

[Steve Freides]

@Luwuwu, breath holding can take many forms. It's good to practice both easy breath holds and those in which you expect to push yourself a little. Pushing yourself into discomfort can end up creating an aversion to breath holding and that's not something you want.

It sounds like you might benefit from not pushing yourself too hard for a while. The tendency to incontinence is usually indicative of you pushing yourself quite hard - OK as long as you're mindful of what you're doing and why, but much like we don't lift our heaviest weights on a daily basis, you shouldn't push yourself to your longest breath holds very often, either.

-S-

 

[Boris Bachmann]

I don't know what the course Second Wind entails, but I've done a lot of "hypoxic work" as a former competitive swimmer and coach.

1. You shouldn't be feeling it in the ears. If you do, you're straining waaaay too much to hold the breath. Hold the breath and exhale under control, don't force stoppage and build tension from the chest up - there is a difference.

2. Refer back to #1.

As far as "hypoxic training" goes, I'm not a huge fan. I think it has its place as far as breath control goes, but it is not the same as true hypoxia or altitude training, and I don't know what current research on it says, but the last time I cared to check, the literature and most coaches didn't believe it did much more than accustom athletes to the discomfort of breath cessation. (which is worth something for sure, especially in swimming).

 

[Adachi]

If your ears are presenting with being effected by the breath training try closing the epiglottis and keeping it all in the chest. This will sometimes increase discomfort in the bronchial tubes.

As a tuba player I've done all sorts of breath manipulations and my ears have on occasion popped, or become stuffy. If it bothers you try keeping it out of your head by closing your throat and opening your mouth. This will help avoid the major tubes involvement; the passageway between your ears and nasal cavity.

For the incontinence sensation, at max pressure exercises using catch breathing to "overfill" the lungs and then lean in different directions to stretch the thoracic cavity, I've been worried about breaking wind at least. And it comes with the territory of increasing intra abdominal pressure, in general.

 

[Boris Bachmann]

I should add that (and Adachi's post reminded me) having clear sinuses is a big deal, especially if you are lifting heavy and/or doing 'hypoxic training'. You could be asking for ear trouble if you going into it with stopped up sinuses.

 

[Steve Freides]

FWIW, I’m a Buteyko breathing teacher, and the way we go about breath holding is to first focus on the easy kind: take a few normal breaths, do a normal exhale, then hold your breath only until you begin to feel air hunger. The other end of the spectrum, which I practice but I consider only for students who’ve mastered easy breath holding, is breath holding while exercising. IMHO, the way I’ve seen it used at swim team workouts isn’t terribly useful. You can just get more used to it, but it’s also the lifeguard’s nightmare because if you pass out under water …

-S-

 

[Boris Bachmann]

IMHO, the way I’ve seen it used at swim team workouts isn’t terribly useful. You can just get more used to it, but it’s also the lifeguard’s nightmare because if you pass out under water …

I don't know how you've seen it used, but, as with most things, there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. In the many thousands of hours I've spent in or at pools, as a swimmer, coach, or lifeguard I've never had to pull anyone out that passed out because of 'hypoxic training', and of the thousands of swimmers I know, I've only ever talked to one that had. I'm not trying to poo-poo the potential danger - just saying.

The purpose of hypoxic training (edit: in swimming), imho, should be to improve breathing patterns and breath control, and/or acclimate an athlete to maintain speed/technique during the discomfort at the very end of a race when there is no time to take a breath.

 

[Luwuwu]

I have not gone all the way through Second Wind yet, but I have been working on breath holds for spearfishing.

1. As for the eardrum pain, maybe that is due to not using your glottis to hold your breath and/or trying to take in too much air. You could try taking in less air and just focus on relaxing through contractions.

2. Feelings of incontinence during breath holds are completely normal. It signifies that you are starting to access the mammalian diving reflex.

Many thanks, Sir! It helps a lot!

 

[Luwuwu]

@Luwuwu, breath holding can take many forms. It's good to practice both easy breath holds and those in which you expect to push yourself a little. Pushing yourself into discomfort can end up creating an aversion to breath holding and that's not something you want.

It sounds like you might benefit from not pushing yourself too hard for a while. The tendency to incontinence is usually indicative of you pushing yourself quite hard - OK as long as you're mindful of what you're doing and why, but much like we don't lift our heaviest weights on a daily basis, you shouldn't push yourself to your longest breath holds very often, either.

-S-

Thank you, Steve! I might have indeed pushed a little too hard for myself. I should have taken heed of the delta 20 principle.

 

[Luwuwu]

I don't know what the course Second Wind entails, but I've done a lot of "hypoxic work" as a former competitive swimmer and coach.

1. You shouldn't be feeling it in the ears. If you do, you're straining waaaay too much to hold the breath. Hold the breath and exhale under control, don't force stoppage and build tension from the chest up - there is a difference.

2. Refer back to #1.

As far as "hypoxic training" goes, I'm not a huge fan. I think it has its place as far as breath control goes, but it is not the same as true hypoxia or altitude training, and I don't know what current research on it says, but the last time I cared to check, the literature and most coaches didn't believe it did much more than accustom athletes to the discomfort of breath cessation. (which is worth something for sure, especially in swimming).

Thank you Boris! Helps a lot!

 

[Luwuwu]

If your ears are presenting with being effected by the breath training try closing the epiglottis and keeping it all in the chest. This will sometimes increase discomfort in the bronchial tubes.

As a tuba player I've done all sorts of breath manipulations and my ears have on occasion popped, or become stuffy. If it bothers you try keeping it out of your head by closing your throat and opening your mouth. This will help avoid the major tubes involvement; the passageway between your ears and nasal cavity.

For the incontinence sensation, at max pressure exercises using catch breathing to "overfill" the lungs and then lean in different directions to stretch the thoracic cavity, I've been worried about breaking wind at least. And it comes with the territory of increasing intra abdominal pressure, in general.

Many thanks Apache! Could you explain a little what "Catch Breathing" is?

 

[Adachi]

@Luwuwu
Catch breathing is something like this ...

Breathing

Sit comfortably, there may be some dizziness.​

Take a full breath, as full as you can.​

Allow the throat to close.​

Without losing air, capture (or "catch") another mouthful of air, with a low Open jaw.​

Send that mouthful of air into your lungs by closing your jaw and allowing you tongue to fill your mouth up to your palate.​

​

Repeat until you just notice a new sensation in your abdomen and thorax.​

Stretching

Lean in all directions tilting the ribcage left to right forward and backwards .​

Do circles, keeping your hips nice and still.​

​

Let out the breath promptly and under control.​

​

Do this several times ad lib and taking fuller breaths will become easier. Just enough to have noticed something new, each time. Not to double or triple your max volume.

My teachers have said things like , that's the first good note I've heard all day, or , sounds like you practiced, when I do good breathing preparation, like this.

 

[Luwuwu]

T

@Luwuwu
Catch breathing is something like this ...

Breathing

Sit comfortably, there may be some dizziness.​

Take a full breath, as full as you can.​

Allow the throat to close.​

Without losing air, capture (or "catch") another mouthful of air, with a low Open jaw.​

Send that mouthful of air into your lungs by closing your jaw and allowing you tongue to fill your mouth up to your palate.​

​

Repeat until you just notice a new sensation in your abdomen and thorax.​

Stretching

Lean in all directions tilting the ribcage left to right forward and backwards .​

Do circles, keeping your hips nice and still.​

​

Let out the breath promptly and under control.​

​

Do this several times ad lib and taking fuller breaths will become easier. Just enough to have noticed something new, each time. Not to double or triple your max volume.

My teachers have said things like , that's the first good note I've heard all day, or , sounds like you practiced, when I do good breathing preparation, like this.

This is similar to the "1+3" breathing Pavel taught at Second Wind. Thank you sir!