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Kettlebell Effort Comparison: Simple vs SFG I

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4-bit

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I know there will not be a final answer to this question since it will vary so much between individuals, but I still think it would be very inspiring to hear your (subjective) experiences.

If you would rate the effort needed for a novice to reach the Simple goal, and then compare it to the effort needed to pass the SFG I certification: How would you estimate their relative difficulty?

Is there a great difference in conditioning and mastery between the two, or will SFG I just be a natural next step after the Simple goal?

Or put in another way, if we see Simple+SFG I as a long personal journey, where would the Simple milestone be: at one third of the journey or closer to the end? (or somewhere else)

Looking forward to hear your thoughts on this :)
 
In my opinion SFG 1 is way harder. The 5 minute snatch test is completely different then 100 swings in the same time.

Furthermore was my certification weekend a total of 27 hours of kettlebell training. I was weighed, given a 24 kettlebell and the whole weekend used that bell or heavier, every drill, skill or workout.
So instead of doing Simple on a day somewhere in the week, you have to do the snatch test after about 22 hours of training ;)

But loved it and planning on preparing for SFG 2

So simple for me was the beginning of my SFG 1 prep
 
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I agree, SFG I is harder. And that Simple is a good milestone in preparing.

Honestly, Simple is a lot more subjective. We picture that everyone who feels they have achieved Simple has completed the test to a perfect standard, but in reality that's probably not the case as it's a self-test. Some "Simples" are better than others. People who have been coached by an SFG or at least critically watch themselves on video will progress faster AND do it better. OTOH, SFG I is not subjective. You have to get through the weekend, be good enough to perfect your skills and coach your partners, do the 6 skills to all the standards in testing, and pass the snatch test in a group setting with a judge along with others. If you don't meet the standard you won't pass with the instructor certificate.

4-bit said:
Is there a great difference in conditioning and mastery between the two, or will SFG I just be a natural next step after the Simple goal?
Click to expand...

It's a step up in conditioning and mastery, yes. It can be a natural next step if you train for it. I did the training program in this article, and it effectively got me from Simple to SFG I prepped.

4-bit said:
Or put in another way, if we see Simple+SFG I as a long personal journey, where would the Simple milestone be: at one third of the journey or closer to the end? (or somewhere else)
Click to expand...

I saw Simple as probably halfway to SFG I and I would guess that's about average, though it probably varies a lot on what the limiters are for someone, what sort of shape they're in when they first take up kettlebell training, and how directly they progress towards these goals.
 
Very interesting topic, as I am on my way to Simple and would like to do SFG afterwards.

I think bodyweight is relevant for this question. If a male weighs 68 kg, his snatch bell is 20 kg. so by achieving Simple, he would already be strong and fit enough for the cert.

On the other hand, the snatch bell for a 110 kg guy is 28 kg, so achieving Simple would not be a significant milestone strength and conditioning wise.

What do you think?
 
Oscar said:
Very interesting topic, as I am on my way to Simple and would like to do SFG afterwards.

I think bodyweight is relevant for this question. If a male weighs 68 kg, his snatch bell is 20 kg. so by achieving Simple, he would already be strong and fit enough for the cert.

On the other hand, the snatch bell for a 110 kg guy is 28 kg, so achieving Simple would not be a significant milestone strength and conditioning wise.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

if your test bell is 20 and you can complete SIMPLE, you have the snatch test in the bag

if your test bell is 24 and you own SIMPLE, you can complete a snatch test

these are my observations
 
@jef @Pavel Macek That's cool, I wasn't thinking about the ROP when I wrote the thread.

So if you would lay out Zero->Simple->ROP->SFG I on a timeline, how much would each step take relative to the others?

Or is the effort required to get from Zero to Simple the same as the effort from Simple->ROP (and from ROP->SFG I) . Would love to hear your experiences.
 
@4-bit

I will answer with a story:

A martial arts student went to his teacher and said earnestly, "I am devoted to studying your martial system. How long will it take me to master it." The teacher's reply was casual, "Ten years." Impatiently, the student answered, "But I want to master it faster than that. I will work very hard. I will practice everyday, ten or more hours a day if I have to. How long will it take then?" The teacher thought for a moment, "20 years."
​
I.e. - different folks, different timeline. The road is the goal - it does not matter how long it takes, the main thing is to keep being healthy, moving better and getting stronger.
 
Pavel Macek said:
S&S's "Simple" > a cycle or two of ROP > SFG1 - time tested and recommended progression.
Click to expand...
+1
My timeline was Simple and beyond + ROP for 2 cycles (simultaneously) + Brett Jones SFG1 prep plan for 3 mos. You can't miss with this combination imho.

As Pavel M said above, don't be in a hurry and enjoy the process. It worked for me and SFG wasn't even the goal, there happened to be an SFG testing in San Diego this spring and I thought, 'now's the time', so I went for it.

I still remember the feeling I had when clicking the button to commit on the website. I was excited but a bit apprehensive like, ' uh-oh, what did I just get myself into'? It worked out great though, the weekend kicked my rear end for sure but I showed up ready, willing and able using the progression listed above.

I will add that if I hadn't used Brett J's prep plan I'm not 100% sure I would have made it, let alone thrived, which is what I did. That's no small thing coming from a 59 yo man
 
Bret S. said:
+1
My timeline was Simple and beyond + ROP for 2 cycles (simultaneously) + Brett Jones SFG1 prep plan for 3 mos. You can't miss with this combination imho.

As Pavel M said above, don't be in a hurry and enjoy the process. It worked for me and SFG wasn't even the goal, there happened to be an SFG testing in San Diego this spring and I thought, 'now's the time', so I went for it.

I still remember the feeling I had when clicking the button to commit on the website. I was excited but a bit apprehensive like, ' uh-oh, what did I just get myself into'? It worked out great though, the weekend kicked my rear end for sure but I showed up ready, willing and able using the progression listed above.

I will add that if I hadn't used Brett J's prep plan I'm not 100% sure I would have made it, let alone thrived, which is what I did. That's no small thing coming from a 59 yo man
Click to expand...
This is what I'm doing (Simple --> (TSC detour) --> RoP (16, then 20, now 24) --> SFG Prep winter 2019 should I have the opportunity to attend SFG I at "The Dome" in Chicago in April 2019. Not sure if I will due to funds and family logistics, but I will be set up by the end of 2018 to have RoP with 24kg in the bag, ready to tackle SFG Prep if I can make it work.
 
Anna C said:
I agree, SFG I is harder......Honestly, Simple is a lot more subjective......Some "Simples" are better than others.....

OTOH, SFG I is not subjective. You have to get through the weekend, be good enough to perfect your skills and coach your partners, do the 6 skills to all the standards in testing, and pass the snatch test in a group setting with a judge along with others. If you don't meet the standard you won't pass with the instructor certificate.....

I saw Simple as probably halfway to SFG I and I would guess that's about average, though it probably varies a lot on what the limiters are for someone, what sort of shape they're in when they first take up kettlebell training, and how directly they progress towards these goals.
Click to expand...

I shortened Anna's post for brevity.

Absolutely. Simple is not picked over by an SFG, the SFG Certification is picked over for three days. Lovingly and constructively picked over, yes. Simple is definitely a good preparation but it's one significant brick in a big wall..apologies to Pink Floyd!
 
@4-bit
This path is a good path, just not the only one.
As for duration, impossible to answer.
How long did it take me to reach Simple ? 6 months, as I started S&S as a light complement to my barbell training in the summer? One month, as I went full gear with S&S only the following January? 5 years, as I started to swing way earlier?

Same for SFG.
Should I count only my specific preparation (Brett Jones protocole, 2 to 3 months), the entire flow (full S&S, ROP, BJP, about 8 months), the time I finally achieve the snatch test (3 additional months - one month per missing snatch :)), my decision to go (almost one year), the sign-up (10 months), or the first idea of doing that kind of cert (before StrongFirst ever existed)?

Tough to say. Just enjoy the journey. That alone is worth it.
 
I agree with what's been said above. My experience has been similar: "Simple" was not as challenging as the level 1 cert.

I made it to "Simple" and a week or so later I started Brett's SFG 1 prep program, which was about 5 weeks out from my certification. I passed all the skills and snatch test that weekend, but the snatch test was very close. I think that if I had actually done Brett's program completely (I think it's 6 weeks...), I would have been better prepared.
 
This is all really interesting - I’m doing SFG1 in October. I’ve been doing S & S for about 3 months, but mixed in with snatches and pressing.

I’m not quite at Simple yet (can do the TGU with the 16kg, but swings only with 20kg not 24kg) but I have already managed to complete the snatch test with my test weight (16kg).

@Anna C - your article is really helpful and my deadlift and press 1RM are very similar to where yours were at the start of your 8 week programme - having just looked at my calendar and seen there are 9 weeks til my cert, I shall be adopting large bits of it! Thank you.
 
@Ella Connor, that's great! PM me if any questions. Yes it's interesting how people have different challenges -- I was a long way from being able to pass the snatch test with 16kg until I did that program (I could do 85 reps, not 100 -- and that is a long way!) and yet I could swing and do get-ups with 24kg, even 32kg. Sounds like you were smart to mix in snatches and pressing with your S&S. I think you'll do great.
 
Sean M said:
This is what I'm doing (Simple --> (TSC detour) --> RoP (16, then 20, now 24) --> SFG Prep winter 2019 should I have the opportunity to attend SFG I at "The Dome" in Chicago in April 2019. Not sure if I will due to funds and family logistics, but I will be set up by the end of 2018 to have RoP with 24kg in the bag, ready to tackle SFG Prep if I can make it work.
Click to expand...
I want to attend "The Dome" as well. Perhaps we'll see each other there!
 
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