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Kettlebell ETK+ is legit!

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Tjerr

Tjerr

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
I just wanted to say, after 3 cycles of ETK+, I had a lifetime PR today! Clean and Pressed the 32 bell for 1-2-3-4 (ladder).

I never pressed the bell for 4, let alone, a ladder of 4. Yay me! Pressed it for a ladder of 3 a month ago and the last 2 cycles only used the 16's and 24's

Love the program, doing it almost exactly to the letter from Milo 17.3 (kindle version on Amazon)

I changed the pull ups to chin up-neutral grip pull up-wide pull up. My towel ripped during towel pull Up's and don't have gymnasticrings. I removed the Shadow Swing, after ripping through my hands 2 times, it's been altered to two handed swings.

I used the 16-24-32 kgs format that Pavel said.

Definitely something I would recommend to everyone. And maintain the big jumps. Recent research by Brad Shoefield found out that there is way more overlap between 1-5; 6-12; 12+ reps then the current books are giving credit to. So keep using easy weight, medium weights and heavy weight.
 
I got the document from Amazon and I'm really liking the structured variability. I have a few questions:

1. The pullups are put in parenthesis in the weekly schedules. Does that mean they're optional?

2. If pistols are not doable, should they be cycled out of the selection or just do progressions till they're doable?

3. Is there an added value to goblet squats, compared to double front squats, or are they just there for the variability? Wouldn't overhead squats be a more useful alternate, if doable?
 
barrak said:
1. The pullups are put in parenthesis in the weekly schedules. Does that mean they're optional?
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yes, optional
barrak said:
2. If pistols are not doable, should they be cycled out of the selection or just do progressions till they're doable?

3. Is there an added value to goblet squats, compared to double front squats, or are they just there for the variability? Wouldn't overhead squats be a more useful alternate, if doable?
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I would say that you can easily create your own exercise lists with 2-6 exercises of your liking. Just practice your grinds and ballistics.

You can then bias the list towards your favourite variation and assign more die-sides to it.

I guess you could also add carries instead of "press 2" or the quick pushes, for example.
 
Bauer said:
yes, optional

I would say that you can easily create your own exercise lists with 2-6 exercises of your liking. Just practice your grinds and ballistics.

You can then bias the list towards your favourite variation and assign more die-sides to it.

I guess you could also add carries instead of "press 2" or the quick pushes, for example.
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Good to hear that pullups are optional. Mace swings would better suit my goals and would loosen the shoulders after a press-heavy session.

Still, pullups would be nice if the press sessions are short enough as per the dice rolls.
 
Just to keep this thread going as there's limited ETK+ material on this forum (would appreciate others posting links to useful threads from the past).

Finished my first week of ETK+ with a few eye openers re lost strength, forgotten technique nuances and lagging endurance in some movements. So I'm re-adjusting as follows:

1. Treat some movements as technique practices with reduced loading: jerks and VPPs.
2. Replace shadow swings with heavy sandbag cleans, just to maintain my recently gained strength in this movement..
3. Keep in the optional pullups as I noticed a dramatic strength loss there. No implements for neutral grip and ring pullups, so I'm subbing with narrow grip pullups and assisted 1H chinups.
4. The rehabbed right shoulder is responding nicely and with no complaints to my pampering it with a 4K offset compared to the other shoulder. So I'll start adding an extra rung for it to help it catch up.
5. Trying to do partial pistols is counterproductive (can't do a full one yet), so I'm moving it to variety days and replacing it in the squat rotation with trap bar squats. I just need to rig up a mini platform to increase squat depth.
 
Just bumping this thread to keep a little traction going for it!

I've had ETK+ for a few years now but I've always found excuses to run something else before giving it a proper go. But now's the time, I've decided. I could use a little 'specialized variety' and a few different movement patterns for a while.

I'm planning to run it as written (including dice for time as I'd like to keep the rest periods short-ish - hypertrophy is a goal) but I've kept the lifts largely to three exercise choices for each category, rather than six.

I've done my table, rolled my dice, and tomorrow I begin!
 
sammal said:
What are the recommended requirements to start ETK+?
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None specified. But it is somewhere between ROP and ROTK. You should be quite confident with single bell presses, snatches, swings, and squats, possibly also LCCJ, VPP, etc.. I guess you could use ETK+ to work on you technique of those exercises with double bells, as it is autoregulated and you don't have to hit any speicifc sets and reps.

Here is an old quote from Pavel from another forum:
"ETK+ allows one to incorporate the RTK double drills (jerks, snatches, front squats, push presses, presses) into an ETK style template. Unlike RTK, it is not a muscle and strength specialization program but a sports oriented GPP plan like ETK which leaves enough energy for your sports practice."
 
I’ve been tossing around the idea of running this for years. But I’ve always hesitated because, for my Army job, I need to be proficient in the low handle trap bar deadlift and hand release push-ups. Curious to get ideas of how to implement those into ETK+. Pavel says something in the article about plugging in the barbell, but I’d be interested to learn how to do so.

My thoughts: use trap bar deadlift as part of the squat module.

1-2: Goblet Squat
3-4: DKBFSQ
5: High handle TBDL
6: Low handle TBDL

…or something like that.

Loading:

1-2: 60% (or 185 for a nice round number)
3-4: 70% (or 225)
5-6: 80% (or 275)

Another idea I had is for push-up numbers (again, Army thing):

Replace 2nd press modules with push-ups and dips.

1: Standard push ups (5,10,15 ladders)
2: Power push ups
3: hand release push ups
4: weighted push ups (band or backpack)(2,4,6)
5: dips (2,4,6)
6. Weighted dips (1,2,3)

May start this next week. Thoughts? Thanks for letting me hash this out.
 
T
Marty said:
I’ve been tossing around the idea of running this for years. But I’ve always hesitated because, for my Army job, I need to be proficient in the low handle trap bar deadlift and hand release push-ups. Curious to get ideas of how to implement those into ETK+. Pavel says something in the article about plugging in the barbell, but I’d be interested to learn how to do so.

My thoughts: use trap bar deadlift as part of the squat module.

1-2: Goblet Squat
3-4: DKBFSQ
5: High handle TBDL
6: Low handle TBDL

…or something like that.

Loading:

1-2: 60% (or 185 for a nice round number)
3-4: 70% (or 225)
5-6: 80% (or 275)

Another idea I had is for push-up numbers (again, Army thing):

Replace 2nd press modules with push-ups and dips.

1: Standard push ups (5,10,15 ladders)
2: Power push ups
3: hand release push ups
4: weighted push ups (band or backpack)(2,4,6)
5: dips (2,4,6)
6. Weighted dips (1,2,3)

May start this next week. Thoughts? Thanks for letting me hash this out.
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I can maintain a high 300s/low 400s deadlift just kettlebelling. Opposite of that, pushups for me really need direct work - just 'belling seems to get me in the 25-35 HRPU range, but specific work really improves them. Which color category are you in? Are you trying to max your categories? Do you struggle with any of the other movements (knees to bar seem to be a big struggle for most people)?

I like your ideas for squats and presses. I think I would do it different, but that is most likely just based on knowing where I am weak and knowing how I like to train. I think I would set a minimum touches per two week block for both the tested moves - I would want to hit the HRPU and the TBDL at least every two weeks, so if I didn't roll those numbers, then the second medium push day (the end of week 2) would be a HRPU + TBDL day, with the second press being die-rolled.

I think I personally would do 1-2 HRPU, 3-4 bench, 5 (single) military press, and 6 (double) C&P). I don't tolerate dips well and I have found that both bench and press have better carry over for me. Again though it comes down to where you're at, what you do well with, and whether you're trying to pass your color category or if you're trying to max the whole shebang.

Another idea you can try, especially if you either aren't trying to max out the ACFT or if you already have a very high ACFT score: Do ETK+ without push-ups or TBDL for 3 months. Have a "field day" where you do a mock ACFT. Ideally, this gives you 2-3 months of specific training before your record test should your results be less than ideal.

I would also make sure I was running - Wednesday and Sunday do easy 30-45 min run, and Saturday do a longer 60-90 min easy run. Again, I've found that doing that puts my two mile time in a pretty easy 16 min range. To get it down into the sub-14 range I found having intervals to be a big help, so around 8 weeks out I would replace the easy Wednesday run with 4-8 x 400-800m repeats a little above my goal pace. with between a 1:2 and 2:1 Work: Rest ratio (depending on how hard it is to maintain that pace - the harder it is to run a little above the goal pace, the longer the rest; the easier it is, the shorter the rest).

Probably more than you asked for - I get excited to share. I'd love to hear how ETK+ works out for you, especially pre/post ACFT results.
 
John K said:
T

I can maintain a high 300s/low 400s deadlift just kettlebelling. Opposite of that, pushups for me really need direct work - just 'belling seems to get me in the 25-35 HRPU range, but specific work really improves them. Which color category are you in? Are you trying to max your categories? Do you struggle with any of the other movements (knees to bar seem to be a big struggle for most people)?

I like your ideas for squats and presses. I think I would do it different, but that is most likely just based on knowing where I am weak and knowing how I like to train. I think I would set a minimum touches per two week block for both the tested moves - I would want to hit the HRPU and the TBDL at least every two weeks, so if I didn't roll those numbers, then the second medium push day (the end of week 2) would be a HRPU + TBDL day, with the second press being die-rolled.

I think I personally would do 1-2 HRPU, 3-4 bench, 5 (single) military press, and 6 (double) C&P). I don't tolerate dips well and I have found that both bench and press have better carry over for me. Again though it comes down to where you're at, what you do well with, and whether you're trying to pass your color category or if you're trying to max the whole shebang.

Another idea you can try, especially if you either aren't trying to max out the ACFT or if you already have a very high ACFT score: Do ETK+ without push-ups or TBDL for 3 months. Have a "field day" where you do a mock ACFT. Ideally, this gives you 2-3 months of specific training before your record test should your results be less than ideal.

I would also make sure I was running - Wednesday and Sunday do easy 30-45 min run, and Saturday do a longer 60-90 min easy run. Again, I've found that doing that puts my two mile time in a pretty easy 16 min range. To get it down into the sub-14 range I found having intervals to be a big help, so around 8 weeks out I would replace the easy Wednesday run with 4-8 x 400-800m repeats a little above my goal pace. with between a 1:2 and 2:1 Work: Rest ratio (depending on how hard it is to maintain that pace - the harder it is to run a little above the goal pace, the longer the rest; the easier it is, the shorter the rest).

Probably more than you asked for - I get excited to share. I'd love to hear how ETK+ works out for you, especially pre/post ACFT results.
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Not more than I asked for...just right.

My MOS is in the "moderate" category, so not too difficult to pass for me. I just want to do the best I can while being a fitness "leader" in my unit (band). My TBDL 3 rep max is generally around 300-310, but I would like to make that much stronger. The idea of 340 being around 80% seems like a dream. I feel like the jerks and snatches really cover what's needed for the standing power throw. HRPU's are a little weak, so your suggestion of adding bench may be a great thing. How would you load it? 60,70,80%? The sprint drag carry event just sucks...haha! Leg tucks are my easiest event by far because of all the pull ups, ab wheel, and snatches I already do. And I would use your idea of running on Wednesday (and possibly Saturday, but less likely...family commitments) for sure.

This is fantastic stuff. Thanks!!!
 
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Marty said:
Not more than I asked for...just right.

My MOS is in the "moderate" category, so not too difficult to pass for me. I just want to do the best I can while being a fitness "leader" in my unit (band). My TBDL 3 rep max is generally around 300-310, but I would like to make that much stronger. The idea of 340 being around 80% seems like a dream. I feel like the jerks and snatches really cover what's needed for the standing power throw. HRPU's are a little weak, so your suggestion of adding bench may be a great thing. How would you load it? 60,70,80%? The sprint drag carry event just sucks...haha! Leg tucks are my easiest event by far because of all the pull ups, ab wheel, and snatches I already do. And I would use your idea of running on Wednesday (and possibly Saturday, but less likely...family commitments) for sure.

This is fantastic stuff. Thanks!!!
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Depending on how you respond, this program might easily increase your deadlift. But, if after running it a couple months you aren't see improvements, you may want to use a more specialized program (or a more specialized version of ETK+) and deadlift more often, such as replacing one squat and one pull with deadlifting so you're deadlifting on, say, Mondays and Fridays. If you have access to barbells and not just a trap bar, you might also split your time between deadlifting, TBDL, and (double KB) front squats.

For bench, for heavy load I would I use a weight that is a hard 5 reps, and for light a hard 10-12 reps, and then split the difference for the medium weight. As an example - 185lbs is a very hard 5 reps, 135lbs is a hardish 10 reps, splitting it for medium would be 155-165lbs. For heavy I would stick with ladders of 1-2-3; medium I would probably do either 1-2-3-4-5 or 2-3-5; light weight I would probably go over 5 and do a 4-6-8 ladder.

If your bench is very weak, you may be better served not alternating heavy-medium-light weights and focus on a simple progression method. Louka made a good video explaining a simple progression method; if you use it, when you test, aim for 8-12 reps, and make sure you hit bench at least once a week. Once you finish the progression, retest at 10-20lbs heavier and repeat the cycle.

Saying "weak" is not being derogatory - HML is more important the stronger you get, if you are relatively undeveloped in your bench, you will recover quickly and don't need the extra down time and will benefit more and quicker from a very simple progression method. In the case of applying this to the ACFT, I would say "weak" is relative to your bodyweight - the closer you can get that 5RM to your bodyweight (and over), the more benefit you'll see from benching versus just doing push-ups. If you're 185lbs and are benching 135lbs for 5, that's very similar to just doing 5 pushups. At that strength level, focusing on driving your bench up quickly OR focusing just on pushups will serve you better than using HML or benching infrequently. If you are benching 225lbs for 5 at the same bodyweight, and are doing most of your work in the 185-225lbs range, your pushups are going to be easy. This may be old hat to you, but in case it isn't I wanted to explain why I would change it around.

I'm a firm believer that specificity is king. If you want to use ETK+ to see what kind of WTH effects you can get for improving your ACFT, cool; if you want to specifically improve something, then train specifically for it, at least some of the time. Modifying ETK+ by reducing variability is an easy way to do that - rolling 1-2-3 gets you pushups and 4-5-6 gets you bench press reduces your variability but means you will be training very specifically for what you want. Likewise with the deadlift - 1-2-3 is TBDL and 4-5-6 is DBKBFS. You lose variability which "costs" you general preparedness but it very specifically prepares you for your test.

OK gotta lay off the coffee my fingers are talking too much. Hope something here is useful!
 
John K said:
Depending on how you respond, this program might easily increase your deadlift. But, if after running it a couple months you aren't see improvements, you may want to use a more specialized program (or a more specialized version of ETK+) and deadlift more often, such as replacing one squat and one pull with deadlifting so you're deadlifting on, say, Mondays and Fridays. If you have access to barbells and not just a trap bar, you might also split your time between deadlifting, TBDL, and (double KB) front squats.

For bench, for heavy load I would I use a weight that is a hard 5 reps, and for light a hard 10-12 reps, and then split the difference for the medium weight. As an example - 185lbs is a very hard 5 reps, 135lbs is a hardish 10 reps, splitting it for medium would be 155-165lbs. For heavy I would stick with ladders of 1-2-3; medium I would probably do either 1-2-3-4-5 or 2-3-5; light weight I would probably go over 5 and do a 4-6-8 ladder.

If your bench is very weak, you may be better served not alternating heavy-medium-light weights and focus on a simple progression method. Louka made a good video explaining a simple progression method; if you use it, when you test, aim for 8-12 reps, and make sure you hit bench at least once a week. Once you finish the progression, retest at 10-20lbs heavier and repeat the cycle.

Saying "weak" is not being derogatory - HML is more important the stronger you get, if you are relatively undeveloped in your bench, you will recover quickly and don't need the extra down time and will benefit more and quicker from a very simple progression method. In the case of applying this to the ACFT, I would say "weak" is relative to your bodyweight - the closer you can get that 5RM to your bodyweight (and over), the more benefit you'll see from benching versus just doing push-ups. If you're 185lbs and are benching 135lbs for 5, that's very similar to just doing 5 pushups. At that strength level, focusing on driving your bench up quickly OR focusing just on pushups will serve you better than using HML or benching infrequently. If you are benching 225lbs for 5 at the same bodyweight, and are doing most of your work in the 185-225lbs range, your pushups are going to be easy. This may be old hat to you, but in case it isn't I wanted to explain why I would change it around.

I'm a firm believer that specificity is king. If you want to use ETK+ to see what kind of WTH effects you can get for improving your ACFT, cool; if you want to specifically improve something, then train specifically for it, at least some of the time. Modifying ETK+ by reducing variability is an easy way to do that - rolling 1-2-3 gets you pushups and 4-5-6 gets you bench press reduces your variability but means you will be training very specifically for what you want. Likewise with the deadlift - 1-2-3 is TBDL and 4-5-6 is DBKBFS. You lose variability which "costs" you general preparedness but it very specifically prepares you for your test.

OK gotta lay off the coffee my fingers are talking too much. Hope something here is useful!
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This is fantastic. Thanks so much! Another reason I love this community.
 
ETK is definitely legit. The snatches are no joke, however. For me this is the downside of the programme. Give me presses, swings and pullups and I'm happier.
 
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