Off-Topic Everything Heart Rate(s)

[jawamac]

Those of you that actually track your Average and max HR, what kind of numbers are you putting up during your workouts, etc? Being someone who has struggled (and struggling) through a lot of anxiety, panic disorder,and depression, I am pretty fixated on this at the moment. I try to keep my target around 121-148bpm, but notice I jump into the 150's when doing Kb swings. Understanding that age can impact this also ( I am 42), how high do some of you go? How high is too high? I have been thoroughly examined by multiple medical doctors and seems my max (and I say that loosely) is around 177. I just worry (as anyone that has ever had a panic attack can attest), that it feels similar when your heart rate is higher while lifting (for me, hitting over 149 creates panic). Just curious about others...

 

[Matts]

if it makes you uncomfortable to go above a certain point, why go above it? I'd imagine you'd get a plenty good workout keeping a ceiling of 135-140. No reason to trigger a panic attack- I can't imagine all the adrenaline and other stress chemicals have a positive effect long-term. I like to think exercise helps burn up the ones that come from other stressors, not increase them.

 

[mikhael]

Hi, I've just completed morning run and can tell you that my HRavg was 151 and peak was 170. I'm using Suunto Ambit3 Peak with HR sensor. My age is 36 so HRmax is about 193. During my running session, the longer one in particular, I'm trying to keep my average HR below 155 bpm.

 

[Anna C]

Here's my typical HR for a session. This session was swings in 5 swings per set with 24 and 28kg (the 28kg produced a higher HR spike), and then 10 get-ups with 24kg. My age is 49 and max HR in the low 180s.

I think what you describe sounds pretty normal ("target around 121-148bpm, but notice I jump into the 150's when doing Kb swings").

Something to notice here is that my 20 sets of swings, or maybe it was 21, took 27 minutes. So I was allowing plenty of recovery between sets which was allowing my HR to drop back down to 110 or so before going again. This is what Al Ciampa calls "A+A" training (alactic + aerobic) and is a great way to get in a volume of good training while keeping your training low-stress.

 

[offwidth]

I'm closer to 60.
I can peak out close to 175 maybe a bit higher.
My RHR is in the high 40's on a good day. (Coming off a rest day and good sleep)
These days I train predominantly (but not always) at a MAF rate.
The only time I consider HR is for:
KB Swings, Running, Cycling, Rucking from time to time

 

[jawamac]

if it makes you uncomfortable to go above a certain point, why go above it? I'd imagine you'd get a plenty good workout keeping a ceiling of 135-140. No reason to trigger a panic attack- I can't imagine all the adrenaline and other stress chemicals have a positive effect long-term. I like to think exercise helps burn up the ones that come from other stressors, not increase them.

Matts,

I agree with your statements. Using CBT (as Dr. Majeres has made popular) can help you get over that initial hump (as in this case Hr triggering panic). An interesting book in regards to stress and exercise is "Spark" by Dr. John Ratey!

 

[jawamac]

Here's my typical HR for a session. This session was swings in 5 swings per set with 24 and 28kg (the 28kg produced a higher HR spike), and then 10 get-ups with 24kg. My age is 49 and max HR in the low 180s.

I think what you describe sounds pretty normal ("target around 121-148bpm, but notice I jump into the 150's when doing Kb swings").

Something to notice here is that my 20 sets of swings, or maybe it was 21, took 27 minutes. So I was allowing plenty of recovery between sets which was allowing my HR to drop back down to 110 or so before going again. This is what Al Ciampa calls "A+A" training (alactic + aerobic) and is a great way to get in a volume of good training while keeping your training low-stress.

View attachment 2998

Thank you, Anna. I'm going to have to research A+A! Question for you- What formula was used to equate your 'max' HR? The most common metric formula is-

Women: BMR = 655 + (9.6 x weight in kg) + (1.8 x height in cm) - (4.7 x age in years)

Granted, these numbers are rather speculative...haha

 

[Anna C]

Well, with that I get a result that is definitely not heart rate! But Google tells me that it is a formula for Basal Metabolic Rate... and that looks fairly accurate. 655 + (9.6 x 72.5) + (1.8 x 173) - (4.7 x 49) = 1432

However, that has little bearing on Max HR, so to answer your question, my max of low 180s is just the highest number that I see on a HR monitor with a maximal effort. 220-age is probably the most commonly used formula for that, and that would get me 171, close enough.

Max HR isn't all that meaningful, IMO. And relating back to your original post, I'm curious about the relationship between anxiety and getting the HR up through exercise. In my experience it's two totally different feelings. I do get an elevated HR when anxious; in that case I'm sitting still or close to it, it's caused by adrenaline, cortisol, whatever... it's an uncomfortable feeling. When I'm exercising and my HR is elevated to pump blood to the muscles, it's a good feeling. To you it is the same?

 

[jawamac]

Well, with that I get a result that is definitely not heart rate! But Google tells me that it is a formula for Basal Metabolic Rate... and that looks fairly accurate. 655 + (9.6 x 72.5) + (1.8 x 173) - (4.7 x 49) = 1432

However, that has little bearing on Max HR, so to answer your question, my max of low 180s is just the highest number that I see on a HR monitor with a maximal effort. 220-age is probably the most commonly used formula for that, and that would get me 171, close enough.

Max HR isn't all that meaningful, IMO. And relating back to your original post, I'm curious about the relationship between anxiety and getting the HR up through exercise. In my experience it's two totally different feelings. I do get an elevated HR when anxious; in that case I'm sitting still or close to it, it's caused by adrenaline, cortisol, whatever... it's an uncomfortable feeling. When I'm exercising and my HR is elevated to pump blood to the muscles, it's a good feeling. To you it is the same?

Same exact feeling. Unfortunately, having had these for 19 years, it's difficult for me to distinguish the elevated Hr to only anxiety/working out. Having that pounding feeling in the chest, elevated Hr, and the "I'm gonna die" feeling is somewhat comical based on how much I've personally experienced and the amount of research I've done, but alas, it does.

 

[Anna C]

Interesting... maybe use the kettlebell practice and the recovery between sets, to tune into the feeling of the elevated heart rate and the breathing that accompanies it... feel its the heart pumping hard as a positive thing, an enabler of your body's ability to perform each set... actively experience the reduction in heart rate and breathing after the set... see what you can do mentally and physically to affect that recovery (diaphragmatic breathing, deep breaths without elevating the shoulders, slow exhales, shaking out the tension in the limbs)... this practice can give you some powerful tools for recovering from other episodes of elevated heart rate. (Disclaimer: I am not a professional in this practice, but I have found benefit myself in these techniques.)

 

[jawamac]

Interesting... maybe use the kettlebell practice and the recovery between sets, to tune into the feeling of the elevated heart rate and the breathing that accompanies it... feel its the heart pumping hard as a positive thing, an enabler of your body's ability to perform each set... actively experience the reduction in heart rate and breathing after the set... see what you can do mentally and physically to affect that recovery (diaphragmatic breathing, deep breaths without elevating the shoulders, slow exhales, shaking out the tension in the limbs)... this practice can give you some powerful tools for recovering from other episodes of elevated heart rate. (Disclaimer: I am not a professional in this practice, but I have found benefit myself in these techniques.)

I could not agree more, Anna! Using HR (in a CBT format) as a tool is what I'm currently doing. I've been able to decrease anxiety in the past, but it's difficult to retrain the brain to think differently. Thank you again for the info . It's great to know that I'm not an oddball when it comes to doing KB swings and my HR. I measured my wife's HR tonight (while I took a rest day) and she hit 150 using the 16kg on 5 sets of 10 reps, and she's MUCH more relaxed than I am.

 

[Anna C]

It's great to know that I'm not an oddball when it comes to doing KB swings and my HR. I measured my wife's HR tonight (while I took a rest day) and she hit 150 using the 16kg on 5 sets of 10 reps, and she's MUCH more relaxed than I am.

A lot of things play into the HR you get from swings, but to some degree, a higher HR spike is a GOOD sign. If you are swinging a challenging weight, being explosive on the upswing, generating good tension at the top in the standing plank, bracing the abs and squeezing the glutes -- all these will drive up the HR spike that you see 10 seconds or so after you set the bell down. In contrast, if you're doing an "easy" swing with little tension or explosiveness and sort of pendulum-ing with the bell, the HR will not come up as far. And of course, you will not be getting the hardstyle benefits from your swing with the "easy" swing. So a higher HR after each set can be a good sign that you're doing it right! In fact I have actually played with that aspect at times.... "let's see how HIGH I can make my HR go with this set of swings"... max tension, explosiveness, etc... not something you always want to seek, but is a useful drill in learning that "volume knob" control described in S&S.

 

[jawamac]

A lot of things play into the HR you get from swings, but to some degree, a higher HR spike is a GOOD sign. If you are swinging a challenging weight, being explosive on the upswing, generating good tension at the top in the standing plank, bracing the abs and squeezing the glutes -- all these will drive up the HR spike that you see 10 seconds or so after you set the bell down. In contrast, if you're doing an "easy" swing with little tension or explosiveness and sort of pendulum-ing with the bell, the HR will not come up as far. And of course, you will not be getting the hardstyle benefits from your swing with the "easy" swing. So a higher HR after each set can be a good sign that you're doing it right! In fact I have actually played with that aspect at times.... "let's see how HIGH I can make my HR go with this set of swings"... max tension, explosiveness, etc... not something you always want to seek, but is a useful drill in learning that "volume knob" control described in S&S.

I can tell you I don't swing a heavy enough weight, as I sold all my bells over 16kg (that included my 24kg, 32kg, 36kg, and 40kg), but managing my HR in the 121-148 range is more important to me personally, than swinging a 2 pood, or bigger ( I might be purchasing a 24kg again though). I now swing a 16kg+5lbs= an 18kg...haha. The weight is very light, but gets the heart pumping! In WKC, we NEVER did swings; all C&J's and I did Strongsport. However, anxiety took over and here I am some five years later... I'm happy the spike in my HR is normal as I was worried. I've spent a lot of time honing my swing technique (which I'm sure still sucks), but I feel it in my glutes and hamstrings when done, so I think I'm doing something right.

 

[North Coast Miller]

Disclaimer - I do not use a HR monitor though I will be using one in the near future to more closely correlate my RPE with actual heart rate numbers.

I definitely feel my heart rate sing a little after a solid set of swings, as in it feels like it is increasing after I stop, and I believe this is not uncommon. I notice this a lot more as I swing with heavier weight for somewhat extended sets.

Jumping into some active recovery the second the KB is set down might help with this - I don't do anything more fancy than hop up and down and swing my arms a little, shake it out.

You might try shorter sets/fewer reps. Also, while not Party approved I have found sometimes defaulting to anatomical breathing (exhale on the backswing) when swinging heavier weight allows me to keep my HR under check for longer numbers of reps than using biomech breathing - it literally feels like I have more time to breathe.

 

[Al Ciampa]

I can tell you I don't swing a heavy enough weight, as I sold all my bells over 16kg (that included my 24kg, 32kg, 36kg, and 40kg), but managing my HR in the 121-148 range is more important to me personally, than swinging a 2 pood, or bigger ( I might be purchasing a 24kg again though). I now swing a 16kg+5lbs= an 18kg...haha. The weight is very light, but gets the heart pumping! In WKC, we NEVER did swings; all C&J's and I did Strongsport. However, anxiety took over and here I am some five years later... I'm happy the spike in my HR is normal as I was worried. I've spent a lot of time honing my swing technique (which I'm sure still sucks), but I feel it in my glutes and hamstrings when done, so I think I'm doing something right.

You're using the tool for the wrong job, IMO. And, moreover, you're looking in the wrong corner of your lifestyle. How much walking do you do? Is it out in nature, away from society? How is your diet? How is the remainder of your stress reduction plan? What kind of breathing do you practice?

 

[jawamac]

You're using the tool for the wrong job, IMO. And, moreover, you're looking in the wrong corner of your lifestyle. How much walking do you do? Is it out in nature, away from society? How is your diet? How is the remainder of your stress reduction plan? What kind of breathing do you practice?

What 'tool' is that exactly, aciampa? Allow me to retort (and answer your questions):
1. I walk a lot.
2. Both
3. Diet is excellent
4. Sucks
5. Meditation from Headspace, etc

Thanks for your opinion, aciampa. However, I firmly believe that a professional (MHC, psychologist, or psychiatrist) is better suited to ask these questions than yourself. Furthermore, the original post was a question in regards to HR based on training, not me;but we won't dive into semantics, aciampa.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter. Would you like to add anything in reference to the original post about HR training?

 

[Al Ciampa]

Would you like to add anything in reference to the original post about HR training?

Nope. Have a great day!

 

[banzaiengr]

I like training with a HR monitor. I believe it to be useful as a measurement tool. I'm 57 so my MAF number is 123. Due to a fairly serious injury I'm using 113 for my aerobic sessions.

For kettlebell work I'm not sure you could completely eliminate lactate. So I use 123 as a target and let my HR return to 103 before starting a set. At 42 your MAF would be 138. That would be quite a bit lower than what you are doing now.

MAF (180-age) was developed through extensive study. A way to "teach" your body to burn fat for energy rather than sugar. All of this could also depend on your goals. You may have another reason for wanting your HR higher such as HIIT you think you need. If your interest in this is solely to reduce higher HR values during training then it may help.

I'm not a trainer. Some of the folks who have commented earlier I know are and give you sound advice. You only know how you feel, so is there an issue? I don't know, but I like Anna experience a completely different sensation when exercising hard as compared to something like anxiety.

 

[jawamac]

I'm going to have to research MAF a bit more as it sounds very interesting! I use this theorem-
To determine your THRR, take percentages of your HRR and add them to your RHR. The percentage you take depends on whether you are doing aerobic or anaerobic threshold training:

• For aerobic training, take 50–75% of your HRR and add it to your RHR
• For anaerobic threshold training, take 80–85% of your HRR and add it to your RHR

which in my case gives a training range of 121-148. It's certainly working well for me. Can you point me to the studies you have read on MAF, banzaiengr?

 

[jawamac]

Checked out MAF training. Unfortunately, I don't see it as a very good fit for incorporating CBT into training, personally.