Nutrition Fasting

[Anders]

Hi,

I was wondering what people's experience is with fasting. Do you feel that it helps you to stay healthy and maintain a relatively low body fat percentage ?

I am currently doing a two days fast. If I break my fast tomorrow morning I will have gone a little bit over 50 hours without eating. This will be the longest time I have gone without food.

I see that Pavel Macek is doing longer fast regularly during the year.

For me at least it is easier to not eat at all, then it is to eat a little.

So yes. Interested in people experiences with this.


Anders

 

[John K]

I fast religiously, as in as part of my religion we fast. I do not see it assist with weight/body comp control in others or myself.

I have previously used intermittent fasting of multiple variations - 1 day no eating, 24hr fast, 16/8, 20/4, etc. I found I did lose weight doing it, if I didn't overeat in the fasting window. I also found over time I started developing "binge/purge ideations." I would "punish" myself if I ate "too soon" or even if I ate too much by a longer fast next time ... This eventually became a vicious cycle, I didn't like the relationship I was developing with food or myself, so I largely left fasting (except for the religious requirements). I've later found that my experience is not unique and a lot of people struggle with that when they engage in "fitness fasting" (what I'm calling fasting for fitness related purposes vs. religious fasting), and that engaging in fitness fasting actually increases the risk of developing binge eating and bulimia.

I want to be clear - fasting does not mean you WILL develop an eating disorder or develop an unhealthy mindset or approach towards food. SOME people fast very successfully for their goals and never come close to having an unhealthy relationship with food. I mention it so that someone new to fasting can be aware of this and if they start seeing those tendencies develop they can stop and find a different way to accomplish their weight/body comp goals.

 

[BrianCF]

I used to do it. Up to 40 hours, once a week. For MOST people it's too much of a mental grind. You feel fantastic the next day. But after you eat, stay near a toilet. I agree it's great for you. Just not sustainable for most. I'm, of the opinion that, you have crack the 21/22 hour mark to start seeing the real benefits. and at if the benefits start, why stop at 24?

I need to get back into it. It's a muscle that you have to exercise. The first few times are really hard.

 

[silveraw]

similar experience to @John K for me.

It’s a tool that works well for some. But also all the special benefits of fasting are from plain old caloric restriction. There is nothing special about longer fasts (or any fasting protocol) other than you will lose more lean body mass the longer you go.

It is worth noting that there was a study done where they found IF and low carb (they were mixed in the experiment group) showed more signs of disordered eating ideation vs the control group.

 

[Anders]

I see that some of you write that fasting has little value over pure calorie restrictions. I am not so sure about that. From what I read there is some evidence that there is difference between not-eating, and low-calories steady eating. It seems to be the difference between zero calories and normal calories that seems to be beneficial. That being said the research field is not certain about it.

On the other side it is very interesting and depressing the thing that people write about fasting and its relationship with eating disorder.

I have read that anorexia has a very high death rate, I think close to 50 percent. I dont think I will ever develop anorexia. But there can be tendency that I strongly dislike not being as lean as I would like to.

 

[Don Fairbanks]

I'll do 3 or more days ever 3-4 months, and 24-36 hrs. once or twice a month.
Occasional deprivation makes the ordinary feel extraordinary.
And other reasons.

 

[Anders]

I'll do 3 or more days ever 3-4 months, and 24-36 hrs. once or twice a month.
Occasional deprivation makes the ordinary feel extraordinary.
And other reasons.

So true. Fasting makes you more grateful for your body and for the pleasures of food.

 

[North Coast Miller]

I fast religiously, as in as part of my religion we fast. I do not see it assist with weight/body comp control in others or myself.

I have previously used intermittent fasting of multiple variations - 1 day no eating, 24hr fast, 16/8, 20/4, etc. I found I did lose weight doing it, if I didn't overeat in the fasting window. I also found over time I started developing "binge/purge ideations." I would "punish" myself if I ate "too soon" or even if I ate too much by a longer fast next time ... This eventually became a vicious cycle, I didn't like the relationship I was developing with food or myself, so I largely left fasting (except for the religious requirements). I've later found that my experience is not unique and a lot of people struggle with that when they engage in "fitness fasting" (what I'm calling fasting for fitness related purposes vs. religious fasting), and that engaging in fitness fasting actually increases the risk of developing binge eating and bulimia.

I want to be clear - fasting does not mean you WILL develop an eating disorder or develop an unhealthy mindset or approach towards food. SOME people fast very successfully for their goals and never come close to having an unhealthy relationship with food. I mention it so that someone new to fasting can be aware of this and if they start seeing those tendencies develop they can stop and find a different way to accomplish their weight/body comp goals.

Cannot be stressed enough, the number one risk factor in developing an eating disorder is not an underlying psychiatric issue, it is engaging in restrictive eating.

For some people, the response to this is so "positive" they spiral into a full blown ED. The way some people speak of the benefits they could be talking from the intake desk at an anorexic refeeding ward. Its somewhat chilling and while I am certain there are genuine benefits I have no inclination to dive into that ocean.

From my own reading, regular glucose depleting exercise triggers virtually identical response as fasting in terms of autophagy at least. Not clear on immune response etc.

 

[Anders]

Cannot be stressed enough, the number one risk factor in developing an eating disorder is not an underlying psychiatric issue, it is engaging in restrictive eating.

For some people, the response to this is so "positive" they spiral into a full blown ED. The way some people speak of the benefits they could be talking from the intake desk at an anorexic refeeding ward. Its somewhat chilling and while I am certain there are genuine benefits I have no inclination to dive into that ocean.

From my own reading, regular glucose depleting exercise triggers virtually identical response as fasting in terms of autophagy at least. Not clear on immune response etc.

I would not recommend many days of fasting to young girls, but for a man approaching 40 years old I think it is relatively harmless.

 

[Steve Freides]

I was wondering what people's experience is with fasting. Do you feel that it helps you to stay healthy and maintain a relatively low body fat percentage ?

Healthy? Yes. Keep body fat low? No.

-S-

 

[North Coast Miller]

I would not recommend many days of fasting to young girls, but for a man approaching 40 years old I think it is relatively harmless.

Most likely yes. It is liable to lead to some strange relationship dynamics with food though.

Otherwise rational adults attribute effects to it that are not inimitable to fasting, something that should be kept in mind when experimenting.

 

[silveraw]

From what I read there is some evidence that there is difference between not-eating, and low-calories steady eating. It seems to be the difference between zero calories and normal calories that seems to be beneficial. That being said the research field is not certain about it.

I dunno, the more I read the more it seems the higher quality the study the less fasting shows any special effects beyond that of regular old caloric restriction.

 

[DoingMyBest]

What interests me most about fasting isn't the effect on weight, but the production of stem cells. It's commonly believed that around 24 hours of fasting our bodies go into high gear for stem cell production. It's also said that HGH production increases significantly with fasting.

 

[metaldrummer]

I do the 12 hour and 6 hour loosely meaning I don't eat for about 2 hours after I get up and then go about 6 until the next meal. After that I just eat into the night though. Lol I'll probably never do anything more extreme because I've always been a bit sensitive to blood sugar levels, and right now I'm trying to get stronger/bigger anyways.

 

[Halfakneecap]

What’s the definition of fasting vs not fasting? Like, where’s the time cutoff?

 

[Simon L]

I fast for 16-20 hours on weekdays. I like to train fasted. I don’t think it’s the magic pill for weight loss but it might help some purely by limiting calories.

For me the real benefits are elsewhere.

First would be metabolic flexibility. Being able to switch between carb burning and fat burning painlessly and easily. I can exercise fasted and feel great. I can miss meals or get sick and not be able to eat and have energy. My relationship to hunger has changed and it has less power over me.

Second would be the benefits of autophagy although this only really kicks in at longer fasts.

Finally would be the spiritual benefits of fasting. These can be different for different people but there is a reason fasting is part of most religions.

If I want to lean out a bit I up my fasting window to 20 hours and eat low carb high fat for a few weeks. Tends to work for me, but as always YMMV.

 

[Simon L]

What’s the definition of fasting vs not fasting? Like, where’s the time cutoff?

I would say 12+ hours without food is deliberate fasting territory. Almost everyone fasts overnight to some degree of course.

 

[Ege]

I have started my fitness journey with fasting. It is a nice tool to teach someone how to control cravings probably because of some psychological reasons (for me it was easier to fast instead of making healthy choices in the beginning) and probably it strengthens/fixes insulin cycle in the body.

Later on I have moved to healthy eating (whole foods mainly) I have dropped fasting.

The results of the researches on this topic is all over the place IMHO.

One can find enough researches that would go against fasting including a study that shows it is not good for cardiac health or muscle loss. Or in favor of fasting.

At the end of the day. If the goal is to stay lean, which is seems to be the leading positive contributor to health when it comes to diet, one can’t beat first law of thermodynamics which is calories in calories out IMHO.

Everyone should stick to what works for them to stay lean. I don’t think there is any magic accept trying to stay away from processed foods.

I think Pavel’s advice of “eating like an adult” is one of the best diet recommendations. We indeed all know what eating healthy means and we like it or not there is no short cuts to it.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

What’s the definition of fasting vs not fasting? Like, where’s the time cutoff?

Eat-Stop-Eat''

This is Brad Pilon's book on fasting. It is based on his Master Thesis in Nutrition on Fasting.
As per Pilon's research, not eating for around 12 hours constitutes a Fast.

This 12 window eating appears to be the general consesus on the Fasting Reseachers.

12+ hours without food is deliberate fasting territory.

Metabolic Flexibility

This is a great point...

First would be metabolic flexibility. Being able to switch between carb burning and fat burning painlessly and easily. I can exercise fasted and feel great.

As Simon stats, Metablic Flexiblity means that with Fasting your body learn to use eight glucose/carbohydrates or ketones/fat for energy. (Research Dr Mike T. Nelson, one of the leader in Fasting Research)

High Carbohydrate Diet

The Traditional High Carbohydrate Western Diet nakes individual...

Glucose Dependent

That mean the body is reliant on glucose/sugar for fuel and energy.

Individual on a High Carbohydrate Diet are ineffective at using ketones/fat for fuel and energy.

The Ketogenic Diet

I have been on The Ketogenic Diet since 2016 for a metabolic condition: over 7 years.

Individual on The Ketogenic Diet are reliant on ketones/fats for energy and fuel.

While they have some glucose stored in the body, the are not ablem to access nor use it well.

Before moving on let's address...

Strength Training On The Ketogenic Diet

Information in more detail has been posted on this form.

Simply put, being on The Ketogenic Diet mean a different approach needs to be taken.

Training must be kept in The Phosphagen Energy or Aerobic Energy System.

The beauty of Interemittent Fasting, again as Simon stated, it is allows you to shift from one Energy System to another.

It is like a...

Hybrid Car

When going slow the bar uses electricity not gas. Metaphorically speaking, this is the same as performing a low level activity/exercise. You body use ketones/body fat.

When you speed up in a car, the car uses gas. Metaphorically speaking, this is the same as performing a high level activity/exercise. You body use glucose/sugar/carbohydrates.

You body's Metabolic Flexibilty is the same as the Hybrid Car, it utilizes electricity (ketones) when going slow and gas (glucose) when going fast.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

The results of the researches on this topic is all over the place IMHO.

Not Really

This is some great research on the benefits of Fasting.

Remember, you opinion doesn't matter, the fact do.

calories in calories out

Yes

This is the primary factor.

One can find enough researches that would go against fasting including a study that shows it is not good for cardiac health or muscle loss.

Research

Post it.

We indeed all know what eating healthy means...

Not Really

The general population and many individual on this forum and others think they know. However, they have an very little knowledge.