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Kettlebell Feedback on new program?

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GeoffreyLevens

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Posting here because this is mixed bb and kb program but the kb part is my "main course"

I've worked w/ kettlebells for about 7 years, lately been off on a barbell journey. About ready to bring back the kb's and would like to combine. Any feedback on my proposed program would be welcome!

I'm 69, 120 lbsX 5'3" and my goals are just GPP for old age, being able to carry groceries, change a tire, split wood for a fire if necessary, feel and look solid enough so young punks might think twice. That's really about it, avoiding frailty as long as possible, hopefully until just before the big dirt nap

For LSD cardio I walk several miles every day, depending on weather/mud a lot of hills. I live in very rural, mountain town so it's more an aesthetic pleasure than "working out". Plan is for A and B days alternating pretty much daily with a day completely off just going by feel.

A:
•A+A snatches---30% body weight (16 kg) or 38% body weight (20 kg) depending on how I feel that day. 5 solid reps and rest until recovered X 20-40 sets, again depending on how I feel. Last time I was doing this it was mostly 30 sets at 30% but I'm definitely stronger now....

B:
•10 Turkish getups [alternating sides]
•2 sets X barbell power clean with 5 front squats
•a couple fairly loaded heavy carries

That's it. Thanks!
 
Looks good to me. whats the rational with the % bodyweight for snatches? I generally have a rep max and do 1/2 of what im capable of OTM. for example sets of 5 with my 10rm, sets of 7 with my 15 rm etc. I think that kind of approach would lead to greater strength gains.
 
Really the rationale is that last time I was doing A+A snatches those were my working weights and I figure on starting there. I threw in the %bodyweight just because there was a thread sometime back where someone tracked that in a poll. I think I at that time I was feeling a bit "punk" because everyone always reports such heavier weights than I use (sill I know) and than thread came along and showed me I'm right in line w/ everyone else going by %.

I never went by OTM because it felt arbitrary to me and some sets or days was too long and others too short. So I've always gone by "feel recovered and ready to go" as main indicator and if wearing HR monitor (rare) I'd also go by MAF zone comparison, aiming for top or slightly out of MAF at end of set and starting again a low end or a bit below that.
 
I think doing some chinups or pullups would be a good idea. Works a lot of muscle, decompresses the back a bit.
 
GeoffreyLevens said:
...
I'm 69, 120 lbsX 5'3" and my goals are just GPP for old age, being able to carry groceries, change a tire, split wood for a fire if necessary, feel and look solid enough so young punks might think twice. That's really about it, avoiding frailty as long as possible, hopefully until just before the big dirt nap
...
•2 sets X barbell power clean with 5 front squats
...
Click to expand...

I'm only 41, but age is starting to creep up on me now. One thing I noticed is that if I spend any time away from real barbell (back) squats, my hips start to get unhappy. I took a year of doing only kettlebell work (just for fun) and did tons of goblet and double front squats (even getting pretty heavy with those), and that really didn't help. I mean, yes I got strong, my core was even better, and I got really good at the kettlebell squats, but as a therapeutic dose for my hips - not so much.

I needed about 6 weeks of 2-days a week barbell back squats and just like magic, everything started working great again. Even barbell front squats really didn't do it.

I don't know what your hips are like but it's just something to keep in mind - there's something magic about the barbell back squat that keeps everything moving well.

Other than that, I love your program. It's simple and covers most of what you'd need.
 
Steve A said:
I think doing some chinups or pullups would be a good idea. Works a lot of muscle, decompresses the back a bit.
Click to expand...
I do dead hang from bar at least 1 minute/day, usually 2-3 minutes.

miked said:
I'm only 41, but age is starting to creep up on me now. One thing I noticed is that if I spend any time away from real barbell (back) squats, my hips start to get unhappy.
Click to expand...
I'm 69 and never done a single back squat in my life. My hips are grand really. Knees and shoulders more where issues tend to be. I've found that front squats help my knees a lot and though hanging has helped shoulder issues tremendously, pullups tend to aggravate. I have tendency to get impingement on one, either genetic structure or because got a moderate AC joint separation 50 or so years ago. Regardless, every time I"ve tried to work pullups, I suffer.

And thank you both. I appreciate the input/feedback!
 
3 days in and I like it except for one issue that's occurred to me. Doing 10 squats and 2 cleans every other day, it won't take long for my front squat strength to outpace my clean strength/ability. I'm going to try adding in another 8 cleans. Hopefully it won't be "too much" work. Based on how it feels so far it should be fine; still plenty "easy".
 
No matter what you do, the front squats are going to outpace the cleans. What you are going to try might delay it though. Have you considered when that happens the possibility of adding reps, or adding a set?
 
When the FSQ outpaces the cleans, either adding a third set of (1C, 5 FSQ), or adding FSQ reps to the two sets.
 
Thanks, got it. More FSQ to increase the total work of that movement. Great idea, esp for me since my knees have a long history of "issues" and I have slight arthritis (xray diagnosis) in one of them. Higher reps at moderate weight I think much better in my case.
 
GeoffreyLevens said:
3 days in and I like it except for one issue that's occurred to me. Doing 10 squats and 2 cleans every other day, it won't take long for my front squat strength to outpace my clean strength/ability. I'm going to try adding in another 8 cleans. Hopefully it won't be "too much" work. Based on how it feels so far it should be fine; still plenty "easy".
Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry much about the barbell clean as you are doing a similar power exercise with the snatch. Just clean to do the front squats.

Looks like a nice program, all the best with it.

Out of curiosity: why have you added the B day? Many have reported good results doing only the snatches on A day and then easy cardio the B day. What is your goal with the B day?
 
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Oscar said:
Just clean to do the front squats.
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Yes, what I"m doing but my clean is "not strong" because I only started doing them a few months ago at low volume and I'd oldish and "not fast" getting under the bar (yet). I've improved quite a bit but have a fair distance to go.
Oscar said:
Out of curiosity: why have you added the B day? Many have reported good results doing only the snatches on A day and then easy cardio the B day. What is your goal with the B day?
Click to expand...
I did nearly a year of snatches and easy cardio only. Stopped about 7 months ago because one shoulder was giving me fits. Went to barbell work for 1st time in my life. One thing I felt was missing from snatches only was work on "front" of my body, pressing and quads. Esp quads and friends for knee stability and health. So the B day is a shot at more balanced feeling. Also, I really like working on barbell cleans....fun. So really the TGU and FSQ are the meat and the cleans are to ge the bar up for the squats but also to have some of that fun along the way
 
Geoffrey-

How is the lockout on your snatches? Since you are somewhat prone to impingement I wonder how you would classify your lockout as compared to SF standards? This is of interest to me because I have some shoulder/thoracic issues from years of throwing footballs as a defensive backfield coach. My left arm would probably pass, but my right arm likely wouldn't.

I like snatches and would like to take a shot at A&A, thus my inquiry.
 
I separated AC joint about 25 years ago. Not sure if grade 2 or 3, only saw sports med chiro. Over the years the bump has gone down but you can still feel the looseness if you press down on clavicle on that side. Anyhoo, I think lock out would pass the SF standards. I just must be sure to keep internal rotation all the way. If I wobble the catch at the top, if the bell swings around a little towards external rotation, I pay for a day or after. Of course, my issue and your issue are individual things. Took me quite awhile to work it out. I have found that dead hangs from pull up bar help a lot. I now do 2 minutes cumulative total as finisher every training session; how many "reps" that takes depends on how fried my grip is but usually 2 or 3 will get it. I've been doing that for some months and it seems to have given me a bit more leeway and also, if my shoulder does get pissed off, faster recovery.

So far so good... The way I discovered the issue was about 8 years ago, when I first started snatching, I got such bad biceps tendonitis or whatever that I couldn't even brush my teeth using that arm. Quite sudden onset too; mildly painful one day. Went ahead and trained and it did not bother during. Next morning red alert. Took months before I had full use of that arm. Soooo, hoping for the best. Did ok with my last go at A+A snatches. I stopped doing them and went to barbell for other issues that needed addressing.
 
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Been noticing past few days and tuned in to it more this morning--I always start with a couple sets each arm at lower weight then go to working weight and start counting sets. First few reps, my funky left shoulder gives me mild stabbing pain then seems ok. When I increase up a bell size, that pain comes back but worse, not quite eye watering but sharp! It is less painful each set and after 2-4 sets on that side, it doesn't hurt any more. I think what is happening is that if I the shoulder packed all the way through the movement, it grinds on something at the top and that causes the pain. Over a few sets I unconsciously back off on the packing near the top, then reset once no longer moving and that eliminates the pain, mostly. So far, no pain afterwards... Worst case I'll switch to swings (or possibly high pulls just because I like them) and just go up a couple kb sizes.
 
Ok, I surrender. Snatches no can do. The window of space that I can lock out and not get sharp, burning pain is just too tiny. Inevitably there's a few reps that aren't exactly, precisely perfect and it lights up. Over time it's cumulative. Felt fine after session on Tuesday and all day yesterday, but this morning, snatch session, much more sensitive. I can do warm up sets w/ 12 kg no problem but as soon as I started w/ my current working weight of 16 kg, shoulder was noticeably worse. Soooooo, I did most of the 30 repeats using 7 reps of high pulls. The way I do them is swing all the way to float, then during the float, pull back hard as if trying to elbow someone behind me in the face, then punch it back out. That entire pull/push happens during the float and the bell starts to drop just about when my elbow is back fully extended. I'll know for sure after a few sessions, but so far that seems to be fine. If it isn't then I'll just go with swings. I like the high pull because it gives movement to upper back muscles and a bit more work than swings in same time period of just about 12-13 seconds.
 
@GeoffreyLevens

I used to do my high pull as you describe, with a rapid pump at the top. I found pretty quickly my shoulder did not appreciate that any more than the snatches I had come to avoid.

I adopted sort of a push-press technique where I would cut the drive a little short/taper the input on the swing phase and actively pull with the shoulder/traps for the last foot and a half or so of travel. Actively resist for about the same foot and a half, then back down into the hike.

Everyone's shoulder issues tend to be a little different though, you might thrive using a more dynamic approach.
 
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