David Mary
Level 5 Valued Member
Tried them. Didn't like them. Two handed kettlebell swings with 30% of the weight give me all the go without banging me up. Glad they float your boat though.
Few questions (About the Deadlift)
- Thread starter wollff
- Start date
silveraw
Level 8 Valued Member
Rif wrote something like this a ways back
A Program to Train for the Half-Bodyweight Kettlebell Press | StrongFirst
This program is for getting you to a half-bodyweight kettlebell press, but will work just as well for getting you to the next bell size, whatever that is.
www.strongfirst.com
Antti
Level 10 Valued Member
Rif wrote something like this a ways back
A Program to Train for the Half-Bodyweight Kettlebell Press | StrongFirst
This program is for getting you to a half-bodyweight kettlebell press, but will work just as well for getting you to the next bell size, whatever that is.www.strongfirst.com
Good catch! I thought of Rifs article on DD but didn't remember this one. Looks good!
Hung
Level 7 Valued Member
Touch and go definitely has it place in deadlift training - or at least if someone pull sumo.
Some people like me starts sumo by a strong hip drive forward, then press up with the quads. If the weight are light then the bar leaves the ground intermediately (for me it is 160 kg at 77 kg bdw). When the weight gets heavier then the quads need to work more and more at the ROM it doesn't familiar with. I use touch and go sumo deadlift (and also doesn't push my hip forward right from the start) to build up the quads.
Some people like me starts sumo by a strong hip drive forward, then press up with the quads. If the weight are light then the bar leaves the ground intermediately (for me it is 160 kg at 77 kg bdw). When the weight gets heavier then the quads need to work more and more at the ROM it doesn't familiar with. I use touch and go sumo deadlift (and also doesn't push my hip forward right from the start) to build up the quads.
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
Touch and Go Sumo
Touch and Go Sumo Deadlift minutely are effective for Sumo Deadlifts. They allow greater Top End Loading; where Sumo Deadlifter are traditionally the strongest.
Touch and Go Sumo Deadlift don't do much for working the Sumo Deadlfters Weak Link; breaking then weight off the floor.
The Sumo Deadlift's Muscle Firing Sequence is Legs > Back. The Legs (Quads) are instrumental in driving the weight off the floor.
Strength Training Movements that increase Maximum Strength and Power off the floor from a Dead Stop are the most effective.
Auxiliary Sumo Deadlift Exercises
1) Wide Stance Paused Halting Deadlifts
a) Maximum Strength is developed with Heavy Load (85% of 1 Repetition Max) for Low Repetition Sets of 1-3.
b) Power is developed with Halting Deadlifts with Moderate Loads (46-62% of 1 Repetion Max) for Lower Repetitions of 1-3.
2) Quarter Wide Stance High Bar Paused Rack Squats
Quarter Wide Stance High Bar Paused Rack Squat simulate the Sumo Deadlift; Heavy Loads with Low Repetitions.
It need to be a High Bar Quarter Squat, which place the workload on the Quads.
3) Wide Paused T-Bell Straddle Sumo Deadlift Squats
This performed like a Kettlebell Sumo Deadlift Squat.
The T-Bell allow high loads to be used comparative with a Sumo Kettlebells Deadlift Squat.
T-Bell Straddle Sumo Deadlift Squats Demo
4) Leg Press
The Leg Press is a great Quad Exercise.
5) Wide Stance Belt Sumo Deadlift Squats
6) Isometric Wide Stance Power Rack Sumo Deadlift
Hung
Level 7 Valued Member
Not if you keep your taint open, lower the weight with control and only use the legs to press up.
Paul Oneid has similar idea if I remember correctly. lifters with dynamic start (rocking hamstring/hip back and forward to initiate the lift) can benefit from doing the lift without that to build up the leg...forget about the touch and go sir is think about it like a wide stance standing leg press ...or super wide box squat with bar in the hands
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
Slow Eccentric
...and"Leg Pressing" the weight back up would be effective.
Paul Oneid
Oneid provide some good information.
Much of the information he presents is what I advocate.
Sumo "Leg Press" Deadlift
The initial drive off the floor with a Sumo Deadlift amounts to "A Wide Stance Deadlift"; information on that has been previously posted.
Powerlifting Deadlifts: Breaking The Weight Off The Floor
McLaughlin Biomechanical Research determined...
1) Sumo Deadlifts
The Muscle Firing Sequence with the Sumo is Legs > Back.
The Leg initiate beaking the bar off the floor.
Essentially, "Leg Pressing" it off the floor.
2) Powerlifting Conventional Deadlift
McLauglin's Biomechanical Analysis determined the Muscle Firing Sequences with the majority of Powerlifting Conventional Deadlifters is Back> Legs> Back.
The Back initiates breaking the weight off the floor with some assistance from the Legs.
Then the loading shifts to the Legs.
With Back performing work to finish it.
3) Olympic Lift Conventional Deadlifts
This is completely different from a Powerlifting Conventional Deadlifts.
The Olympic Lift Conventional Deadlift utilized "Leg Drive" to break the bar off the floor.
Cueing for Olympic Lift Conventional Dealift is to "Leg Press" the bar off the floor...
or...
"Push the Platform" away from you.
The Olympic Lift Deadlifts enables a Weightlifter to correctly position the bar at the knees for the Second Pull.
The Powerlfiting Conventional vs Olympic Conventional Deadlifts Issue
The Dogma of the Olympic Conventional "Lift with the Legs" is touted by many for everyone; which is not true for Powerlifting Conventional Deadlifters.
For many Powerliftering Conventional Deadlifters performing an Olympic Conventional Deadlift at a competition usually in Competition usually ensure they Deadlift less than the could/should.
McLaughlin's Biomechanical Research
Regarding The Powerlfiting Conventional Deadlift...
Contrary to popular opinion, the initial drive is done primarily by the back (erector spinae) and not the legs. If the athlete tries to move the weight using their legs instead of their back the result is a premature straightening of the legs and an unwanted curvature of the back.
McLaughlin compared the deadlift styles of top powerlifters at the time such as Jon Kuc, Bill Kazmaier, and Vince Anello. His results showed that all the lifters had similar styles exhibiting back extension at the beginning of the lift.
Another component is...
Thoracic Back Rounding for the Powerlifting Conventional Deadlifters
This usually allows them to pull more than an Olympic Lift Conventioal Deadlift. However, Thoracic is counter productivce for Olympic Lifters and Sumo Deadlifters.
Dr Bret Contreras, along with others researchers, demonstrated the Thoracic Upper Back Rounding is not an issue.
Thoracic Rounding allow the lifter to maintain the bar closer to the Body Center of Gravity, COG. This minimizes the Torque Loading on the Back. The farther away the bar is form the Lifter's COG, the greater the Torque; meaning the Bar Load is magnified beyond the weight on the bar.
A Strong Case for Round Back Deadlifts
A Strong Case For the Rounded Back Deadlift
Always pull with a neutral spine. Well, maybe not always. Info here.
The Rounded Back Conundrum
Many lifters find that when the weight creeps over 90% of their 1RM, their back starts to round, and the rounding gets more pronounced as the load approaches true maximal weight. I'm one of these individuals. I wish I could pull heavy loads with a neutral spine, but unfortunately I'm unable to do so.
With what's deemed "perfect form," characterized by maintenance of the natural lordotic and thoracic spinal curvature with the extension revolving around the hip joints, I'm able to pull 425 pounds. If I allow my back to round considerably, I can pull 565 pounds.
Antti
Level 10 Valued Member
Slow Eccentric
...and"Leg Pressing" the weight back up would be effective.
Paul Oneid
Oneid provide some good information.
Much of the information he presents is what I advocate.
Sumo "Leg Press" Deadlift
The initial drive off the floor with a Sumo Deadlift amounts to "A Wide Stance Deadlift"; information on that has been previously posted.
Powerlifting Deadlifts: Breaking The Weight Off The Floor
McLaughlin Biomechanical Research determined...
1) Sumo Deadlifts
The Muscle Firing Sequence with the Sumo is Legs > Back.
The Leg initiate beaking the bar off the floor.
Essentially, "Leg Pressing" it off the floor.
2) Powerlifting Conventional Deadlift
McLauglin's Biomechanical Analysis determined the Muscle Firing Sequences with the majority of Powerlifting Conventional Deadlifters is Back> Legs> Back.
The Back initiates breaking the weight off the floor with some assistance from the Legs.
Then the loading shifts to the Legs.
With Back performing work to finish it.
3) Olympic Lift Conventional Deadlifts
This is completely different from a Powerlifting Conventional Deadlifts.
The Olympic Lift Conventional Deadlift utilized "Leg Drive" to break the bar off the floor.
Cueing for Olympic Lift Conventional Dealift is to "Leg Press" the bar off the floor...
or...
"Push the Platform" away from you.
The Olympic Lift Deadlifts enables a Weightlifter to correctly position the bar at the knees for the Second Pull.
The Powerlfiting Conventional vs Olympic Conventional Deadlifts Issue
The Dogma of the Olympic Conventional "Lift with the Legs" is touted by many for everyone; which is not true for Powerlifting Conventional Deadlifters.
For many Powerliftering Conventional Deadlifters performing an Olympic Conventional Deadlift at a competition usually in Competition usually ensure they Deadlift less than the could/should.
McLaughlin's Biomechanical Research
Regarding The Powerlfiting Conventional Deadlift...
Contrary to popular opinion, the initial drive is done primarily by the back (erector spinae) and not the legs. If the athlete tries to move the weight using their legs instead of their back the result is a premature straightening of the legs and an unwanted curvature of the back.
McLaughlin compared the deadlift styles of top powerlifters at the time such as Jon Kuc, Bill Kazmaier, and Vince Anello. His results showed that all the lifters had similar styles exhibiting back extension at the beginning of the lift.
Another component is...
Thoracic Back Rounding for the Powerlifting Conventional Deadlifters
This usually allows them to pull more than an Olympic Lift Conventioal Deadlift. However, Thoracic is counter productivce for Olympic Lifters and Sumo Deadlifters.
Dr Bret Contreras, along with others researchers, demonstrated the Thoracic Upper Back Rounding is not an issue.
Thoracic Rounding allow the lifter to maintain the bar closer to the Body Center of Gravity, COG. This minimizes the Torque Loading on the Back. The farther away the bar is form the Lifter's COG, the greater the Torque; meaning the Bar Load is magnified beyond the weight on the bar.
A Strong Case for Round Back Deadlifts
A Strong Case For the Rounded Back Deadlift
Always pull with a neutral spine. Well, maybe not always. Info here.www.t-nation.com
The Rounded Back Conundrum
Many lifters find that when the weight creeps over 90% of their 1RM, their back starts to round, and the rounding gets more pronounced as the load approaches true maximal weight. I'm one of these individuals. I wish I could pull heavy loads with a neutral spine, but unfortunately I'm unable to do so.
With what's deemed "perfect form," characterized by maintenance of the natural lordotic and thoracic spinal curvature with the extension revolving around the hip joints, I'm able to pull 425 pounds. If I allow my back to round considerably, I can pull 565 pounds.
Personally, I'm not a fan of such distinctions, as back vs legs when it comes to deadlifting.
First of all, there are many muscles in the legs. And are glutes a leg muscle?
And when it comes to the back muscles, I would expect that they mostly do isometric work. Most of the lift is knee and especially hip extension, with relatively more knee extension in the sumo deadlift. Depending on how rounded the back is, some back extension is also necessary.
In any case, I'd rather see the distinction as knee vs hip instead of legs vs back.
David Mary
Level 5 Valued Member
Bob Peoples round back deadlifted over 700 pounds.
Antti
Level 10 Valued Member
It would be more impressive if he straight back deadlifted over 700 pounds.
Not that it would be better done that way. It just would be harder.
One can't talk about round back deadlifters without talking about Konstantin Konstantinov.
-S-
-S-