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Strong Endurance Finding Anaerobic threshold

offwidth said:
Well… let me rephrase that a bit if you will allow me…
I think my beef with it, is that it’s really misunderstood, and has become in popular fitness circles the be all and end all… which it’s not.
As far as being meaningful… it’s important to remember that it’s highly genetic in nature. If one is a well trained seasoned locomotive endurance athlete it is very difficult for any type of training to move the needle on VO2max. If one is young, and / or very detrained then certainly improvements are available. I am neither (especially in the age department), so for me I don’t consider VO2max meaningful. Even if I knew what mine is (and I don’t) I wouldn’t be able to change it by any appreciable amount.
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I know this view is widely held by reasonable folk, but I know of at least one _extremely_ interesting claim to the contrary: How ‘Trainable’ Is VO2 Max Really? – A Case Study - SimpliFaster
(Couzens is a bit of a wannabe guru, and the stroke volume plateau is at least disputed in more recent literature, but I don't think he's outright fabricating his numbers here.).
 
offwidth said:
Steve…
Yes.
AeT at top of Z2 (i.e. the Z2-Z3 border)
AnT (aka LT) the top of Z3 ( the Z3-Z4 border)

Z4 is the range from AnT to HRmax. Typically only seen in (training) efforts ranging from 30sec to about 8min in duration

Z5 by contrast is HRmax effort that can only be performed in the sub 60sec duration.

As far as testing goes…
(And it depends upon how accurate you want the results)

Doctor… most likely not… unless it’s a cardiologist doing a stress test, and they will likely want a good reason to do so…
University Kinesiology Department….. yes. Especially if they have gas exchange apparatus.
Performance Testing Centres (like what @Don Fairbanks just posted)
Some personal coaches who specialize in running and cycling often do Blood Lactate testing for AeT, and also offer AnT testing. I have a guy…

DIY AnT testing is relatively straightforward and accurate.

HR max can be done in a DIY fashion, but like the Stress Test… I would prefer to have somebody standing by with the paddles…

Something I did not know until a few years ago is that VO2max testing may or may not give you good results for AeT and AnT, depending upon how they administer the tests. But then again, I am not a big fan of VO2max being that meaningful of a metric anyway.

I probably slightly disagree with @JPCross about AnT in well trained endurance athletes being closer to the top of Z4. I would rather say that in these athletes Z4 starts at a higher HR than in lesser trained individuals. Their Z2 is also at a higher rate, and that they have a compressed Z3. Additionally they can stay in Z3 and Z4 for a longer time.
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You've very thoroughly, eloquently, yet concisely explained so much in this post. Thank you!

When I mentioned AnT being at the top of Z4, I probably should have been a bit more detailed. I typically look at a HRR model, a la Karnoven, to determine approximate "zones". The top of my Z4 in their model has me at a HR that I could sustain for a 60:00 max effort type of event. That said, after a bit of reading, it seems like AnT generally falls somewhere within the range that is Z4, be it the low end, top end, or somewhere in between.

I 100% agree with the idea of very trained individuals having a high Z2, compressed Z3, and the ability to maintain a bit higher heart rate for longer than lesser trained.

It would be interesting, once I can gather all kinds of data, how some of the things check out for me. DIY zones, more calculated zones using HR data or lactate monitors, lab work, etc.
 
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