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Kettlebell "Giant 1.0"

Hrungnir

Level 2 Valued Member
That's what I mean. Try not to squeeze the bell handles on the back swing.
I just sort of assumed it was due to the longer sets coupled with rep counts, as it didn't happen till 1.1. I'll try to be more conscious of my grip on the back swing.
 

Brenton8989

Level 1 Valued Member
Why can’t you? Shouldn’t the auto regulation take care of any need for deload?
Well Geoff has outlined a few ways to deload to avoid injury and to be able to keep progressing… if you haven’t signed up for his email blasts, they’re great. I plan on going right into 1.1, then 1.2, then 2.0, then 3.0… 20 weeks of clean and pressing high volume is a recipe for something bad, without plugging in deload weeks on week 4, taking an off week, or going light intensity wk 1, medium intensity week 2, heavy intensity week 3, deload week 4…

Just trying to be preventative! I’m 32 and I swear the day I woke up @ 30, everything started changing! Trying to go till I’m 80!
 

Hrungnir

Level 2 Valued Member
Well Geoff has outlined a few ways to deload to avoid injury and to be able to keep progressing… if you haven’t signed up for his email blasts, they’re great. I plan on going right into 1.1, then 1.2, then 2.0, then 3.0… 20 weeks of clean and pressing high volume is a recipe for something bad, without plugging in deload weeks on week 4, taking an off week, or going light intensity wk 1, medium intensity week 2, heavy intensity week 3, deload week 4…

Just trying to be preventative! I’m 32 and I swear the day I woke up @ 30, everything started changing! Trying to go till I’m 80!
I’m signed up, I haven’t seen any emails telling you to deload from Giant. I have gone 3.0-1.0-2.0-1.1 and am on 1.2 currently, with no deload or any deleterious effects. Auto regulation has me dip (and usually in week 3) when my body isn’t keeping up, so the deload is baked in. (I’m 33)

Maybe there is more information in his other books, as I bought the standalone but he mentions being able to run it as a program for years and doesn’t mention a deload.
 
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Brenton8989

Level 1 Valued Member
I’m signed up, I haven’t seen any emails telling you to deload from Giant. I have gone 3.0-1.0-2.0-1.1 and am on 1.2 currently, with no deload or any deleterious effects. Auto regulation has me dip (and usually in week 3) when my body isn’t keeping up, so the deload is baked in. (I’m 33)

Maybe there is more information in his other books, as I bought the standalone but he mentions being able to run it as a program for years and doesn’t mention a deload.
Beast! More power to you. Keep it up!
 

Gypsyplumber

Level 6 Valued Member
I’m signed up, I haven’t seen any emails telling you to deload from Giant. I have gone 3.0-1.0-2.0-1.1 and am on 1.2 currently, with no deload or any deleterious effects. Auto regulation has me dip (and usually in week 3) when my body isn’t keeping up, so the deload is baked in. (I’m 33)

Maybe there is more information in his other books, as I bought the standalone but he mentions being able to run it as a program for years and doesn’t mention a deload.
If you scan this thread Geoff lays out how you can deload if you wish to. It’s basically start out with medium reps week 1 add to them each week. Week 3 will be the hardest week, then deload week 4 using 20 min sets likely…rest week 5
 

Hrungnir

Level 2 Valued Member
If you scan this thread Geoff lays out how you can deload if you wish to. It’s basically start out with medium reps week 1 add to them each week. Week 3 will be the hardest week, then deload week 4 using 20 min sets likely…rest week 5
My question was why deload, not how. Isn’t it part of auto regulation?

As you said, advice was given if you wish to, I was responding to saying he had to because pressing at high volume is a recipe for bad things. I didn’t read Geoff saying anything remotely like that. If you haven’t run high volume C&P with auto regulation yet, it’s strange to me to automatically handicap it in a way that wasn’t mentioned in the program before even seeing how it goes.
 

Gypsyplumber

Level 6 Valued Member
My question was why deload, not how. Isn’t it part of auto regulation?

As you said, advice was given if you wish to, I was responding to saying he had to because pressing at high volume is a recipe for bad things. I didn’t read Geoff saying anything remotely like that. If you haven’t run high volume C&P with auto regulation yet, it’s strange to me to automatically handicap it in a way that wasn’t mentioned in the program before even seeing how it goes.
For me personally, after about 5-6 months running the program I needed deload weeks. My body started feeling it even with auto regulation. But if you’re feeling fine you don’t have to deload especially if you’re incorporating the week off he recommends in between each block of the Giant.
 

Hrungnir

Level 2 Valued Member
For me personally, after about 5-6 months running the program I needed deload weeks. My body started feeling it even with auto regulation. But if you’re feeling fine you don’t have to deload especially if you’re incorporating the week off he recommends in between each block of the Giant.
It sounds like we are in agreement, you ran the entire program as written before making adjustments. One shouldn’t put limitations on themselves that weren’t written into the program if they haven’t actually experienced what their limitations are with the program.
 

WxHerk

Level 7 Valued Member
It sounds like we are in agreement, you ran the entire program as written before making adjustments. One shouldn’t put limitations on themselves that weren’t written into the program if they haven’t actually experienced what their limitations are with the program.
This. Right here. @Gypsyplumber 's post and your response are exactly what executing a program and strength training in general is all about.
 

Brenton8989

Level 1 Valued Member
It sounds like we are in agreement, you ran the entire program as written before making adjustments. One shouldn’t put limitations on themselves that weren’t written into the program if they haven’t actually experienced what their limitations are with the program.
Sounds like you could author a book!
 

Steve W.

Level 8 Valued Member
My question was why deload, not how. Isn’t it part of auto regulation?
If you haven’t run high volume C&P with auto regulation yet, it’s strange to me to automatically handicap it in a way that wasn’t mentioned in the program before even seeing how it goes.
One shouldn’t put limitations on themselves that weren’t written into the program if they haven’t actually experienced what their limitations are with the program.
Well, "autoregulation" is wide open to interpretation. There's a huge range between cruising at a relaxed pace and getting the reps you get (it's quite possible to do the Giant and never count sets at all), and pushing to get as many reps as possible and beat your previous week's totals.

Autoregulation can be doing amount you CAN do on a given day, or it can be regularly doing the amount you can continue to recover from next week, next month, and next year.

There are often large gaps between what you can do and what you can consistently recover from. It depends on how hard you push, your training background, your mobility restrictions and prior injuries, your other training and life stresses, etc.

And it can be very hard to calibrate the two long term, because you don't necessarily see the effects in the immediate or short term.

Making the amount of sets in the program "autoregulated" does not magically make your work match your recovery.

Personally, I'm shocked at how many reps some people report doing on the Giant. I just can't imagine it for myself. I'm not saying they're doing it "wrong" or it's not sustainable for them, but I suspect that at some point they're going to hit a wall, burn out, or get generally beat down.

So I would push back against the use of the terms "handicap" and "limitations" in the quotes above. A deload isn't a handicap or limitation; it's a way of matching training and recovery to facilitate long term progress. You don't get stronger while you're training; you get stronger after you recover. Judicious deloading/waving doesn't hold you back -- it takes the brakes off.
 
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Brenton8989

Level 1 Valued Member
Well, "autoregulation" is wide open to interpretation. There's a huge range between cruising at a relaxed pace and getting the reps you get (it's quite possible to do the Giant and never count sets at all), and pushing to get as many reps as possible and beat your previous week's totals.

Autoregulation can be doing amount you CAN do on a given day, or it can be regularly doing the amount you can continue to recover from next week, next month, and next year.

There are often large gaps between what you can do and what you can consistently recover from. It depends on how hard you push, your training background, your mobility restrictions and prior injuries, your other training and life stresses, etc.

And it can be very hard to calibrate the two long term, because you don't necessarily see the effects in the immediate or short term.

Making the amount of sets in the program "autoregulated" does not magically make your work match your recovery.

Personally, I'm shocked at how many reps some people report doing on the Giant. I just can't imagine it for myself. I'm not saying they're doing it "wrong" or it's not sustainable for them, but I suspect that at some point they're going to hit a wall, burn out, or get generally beat down.

So I would push back against the use of the terms "handicap" and "limitations" in the quotes above. A deload isn't a handicap or limitation; it's a way matching training and recovery to facilitate long term progress. You don't get stronger while you're training; you get stronger after you recover. Judicious deloading/waving doesn't hold you back -- it takes the brakes off.
This!
 

Hrungnir

Level 2 Valued Member
@Steve W. those are cogent points, and I agree with them. Do you agree that changes should be made to the program within the first four weeks? It is hard to calibrate such things. If the author of the program didn’t, what makes an individual who purchased the program qualified to do so, before even running an entire four weeks?

I did miss elaboration on that aspect when I began the conversation, auto regulation does work for me and it has worked long term. I don’t think someone should decide it doesn’t work and stack another deload protocol on top of the program before doing it as written. That is handicapping and limiting the program, you might not like the verbiage but it is artificially lowering your work load in a parameter that the program wasn’t designed with.
 

Steve W.

Level 8 Valued Member
Do you agree that changes should be made to the program within the first four weeks? It is hard to calibrate such things. If the author of the program didn’t, what makes an individual who purchased the program qualified to do so, before even running an entire four weeks?
What do you mean by "changes to the program"? The number of sets and the session length are autoregulated. So the program "as written" already has a lot of leeway in applying those parameters. Of course individuals who purchase the program are qualified to make those decisions -- it's an assumption that the program is built on. Otherwise, everything would be spelled out to the set and the minute, like in Kettlebell Muscle.

I did miss elaboration on that aspect when I began the conversation, auto regulation does work for me and it has worked long term.
What do you mean by "long term"? To me, long term is between 6 months and forever. I have close to 40 years of training experience and I've found that things that work great for 6 months might not be sustainable in the same way for another 6 months, or another year. If it is working for you, that's great. I have no opinion on your specific training because I don't know anything about it.

I don’t think someone should decide it doesn’t work and stack another deload protocol on top of the program before doing it as written.
Who said autoregulation "doesn't work"? I think it's a very effective strategy, and one thing that makes it effective is its flexibility. But it operates in day-by-day timeframe and, as I mentioned previously, that doesn't automatically calibrate training and recovery long term.

Personally, I mostly don't use any formal deloading "protocol." I have been speaking more to the general idea and practice of proactively waving the training load and considering long term recovery and progress in doing so, not just autoregulation in the sense of doing the most I am capable of on any given day.

That is handicapping and limiting the program, you might not like the verbiage but it is artificially lowering your work load in a parameter that the program wasn’t designed with.
Again, I disagree with this characterization. Lowering the workload, is not necessarily limiting results. In my experience it only enhances results. I find that while an occasional hard push/overreach is fine (over a day, week, month, or even couple of months), I feel stronger and better spending most of my time on cruise control, and throwing in more easy and off days (and occasional easy or off weeks). It the opposite of a handicap or limitation.
 

Hrungnir

Level 2 Valued Member
@Steve W. If you build a deload into the fourth week in a parameter that was never outlined in the program, that is a change to the program. It is loosely defined and the example we are discussing isn’t following the loose protocol, it’s intentionally lowering workload in a way that isn’t outlined.

I should have broken up that sentence as they were two thoughts. I didn’t elaborate on the aspect that I think you should run the program as written. I do run the program as written and am fine, I didn’t make assumptions I wouldn’t be. The specific example being discussed claimed that high volume C&P would be a recipe for bad things, without any backup except assumptions as they never even attempted it as written.

If the workload is too high as written and you are able to lower it without impacting results, then why are you running the program? Do you feel that to be the case with this program specifically?
 

Hrungnir

Level 2 Valued Member
There is no workload "as written."

The workload is autoregulated. That means I, or you, or anyone, gets to decide how much to do. And that means I, or you, or anyone, can decide to do less some days, weeks, or even full cycles. And in my experience, it is often beneficial to do so.
“On “good” days, the trainee can push and do a lot of work. On “bad” days, the trainee can “coast” and do a bare minimum. Both contribute to training variability and therefore faster progress.”

I think this is pretty straightforward on how to approach workload and is what is written. Tbf, your point is also in the paragraph two above it.

“Autoregulation is when the output during a training session is governed by the athlete/trainee, based on loose criteria or guidelines.”

I feel like the ecumenical council arguing over words lol. I will concede that yes, it does state you can vary the workload as you desire but my point is it specifically states to do so on how you feel that day (auto regulation) and not on set parameters, such as this is the fourth week I have to deload. I think you should do it as it is written first and placing a deload within the first four weeks and not based upon feel isn’t how it is written.

Edit: if I shouldn’t quote direct because it’s a paid service please edit or delete this post
 

Erik W

Level 4 Valued Member
When I ran Giant 1.0 through 1.2, I really had to cut back in the last couple of weeks of 1.2. I hadn't done any deload weeks until my body more-or-less forced me to do near the end. I ran 30 minute sessions until that point, then I cut back to 20 minute sessions just to get through it.

But that was just my experience. I probably could have pushed less hard. I really went for it.
 

Halfakneecap

Level 5 Valued Member
I should have slowed down a touch in the last weeks of giant 3.0, but just had to beat last weeks reps. Gave myself biceps tendinitis. I would have been fine if I eased up a little, but the numbers were going up so well I wanted to push. Geoff’s fault for great programming haha. Next time, I’ll aim to beat my reps, but not kill myself. I prefer to move up a bell size, rather than get a tonne of reps.
 
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