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Kettlebell "Giant 1.0"

John Grahill said:
Dayz, I have always been one of those whose strict press increases after a steady diet of push presses. I think you have a solid plan there.
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Thanks @John Grahill . You've been a font of wisdom on the Giant and definitely inspired me and many others to try it! This thread is a treasure trove.

Can I ask, do you do any other physical activity at all in addition to the Giant? Any mobility or recovery work? Any supplemental lifts?

Have you had occasion to test any other lifts to see if they've increased or decreased during your time on the Giant?

(I recall reading you pullups increased without training them much)
 
Dayz said:
Thanks @John Grahill . You've been a font of wisdom on the Giant and definitely inspired me and many others to try it! This thread is a treasure trove.

Can I ask, do you do any other physical activity at all in addition to the Giant? Any mobility or recovery work? Any supplemental lifts?

Have you had occasion to test any other lifts to see if they've increased or decreased during your time on the Giant?

(I recall reading you pullups increased without training them much)
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Wisdom? Me? I should show this to my wife! ?

Yeah, my "other" work is walking/rucking. I found that the jacked up pumps and heart rates from the Giant were more than enough stimulus for my taste!

I haven't done pullups in a while, I was relating that from prior runs through hardstyle c+ps.

I am glad I could help but I really was just the guinea pig ?! Geoff designed the program and he's really a master at programming, he deserves the credit for everything!
 
6was9 said:
"It would perhaps... But only if... But then again..." A real dilemma, isn't it? ?
I won't call it The Giant. Or maybe... ?
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@6was9 -

Dilemma? No. I was trying to be diplomatic. Apparently I failed.

I said "GIANT+" because some guys are running THE GIANT and doing other things -BJJ, obstacle course race training, rucking, etc.

I've said this repeatedly: If you change the internal workings/structure of a program, it's no longer that program.

So, can you change the rep structure of THE GIANT?

Yes, but it's no longer THE GIANT.

It's just your own C+P program, assuming you only do C+Ps.

Can you add in front squats, rows, planches, Pilates, and gardening in a circuit with your Clean + Presses? And do it twice a day, 8 days a week?

You "can." In fact, you can do anything you want. Just don't do that and call it THE GIANT.

And certainly don't do that to any program and have the audacity to say something like, "I did [PROGRAM NAME} and it didn't work for me."

Hope that clears things up.
 
Geoff Neupert said:
@6was9 -

Dilemma? No. I was trying to be diplomatic. Apparently I failed.

I said "GIANT+" because some guys are running THE GIANT and doing other things -BJJ, obstacle course race training, rucking, etc.

I've said this repeatedly: If you change the internal workings/structure of a program, it's no longer that program.

So, can you change the rep structure of THE GIANT?

Yes, but it's no longer THE GIANT.

It's just your own C+P program, assuming you only do C+Ps.

Can you add in front squats, rows, planches, Pilates, and gardening in a circuit with your Clean + Presses? And do it twice a day, 8 days a week?

You "can." In fact, you can do anything you want. Just don't do that and call it THE GIANT.

And certainly don't do that to any program and have the audacity to say something like, "I did [PROGRAM NAME} and it didn't work for me."

Hope that clears things up.
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Oh man... you need a whole different layer of defense against nut cases (like I used to be) who would do concurrent as-designed programs.

I used to do that in my training infancy, with light loads to survive the insane schedule, and then complain: "why am I not getting any stronger?"
 
Geoff Neupert said:
@6was9 -

Dilemma? No. I was trying to be diplomatic. Apparently I failed.

I said "GIANT+" because some guys are running THE GIANT and doing other things -BJJ, obstacle course race training, rucking, etc.

I've said this repeatedly: If you change the internal workings/structure of a program, it's no longer that program.

So, can you change the rep structure of THE GIANT?

Yes, but it's no longer THE GIANT.

It's just your own C+P program, assuming you only do C+Ps.

Can you add in front squats, rows, planches, Pilates, and gardening in a circuit with your Clean + Presses? And do it twice a day, 8 days a week?

You "can." In fact, you can do anything you want. Just don't do that and call it THE GIANT.

And certainly don't do that to any program and have the audacity to say something like, "I did [PROGRAM NAME} and it didn't work for me."

Hope that clears things up.
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My post was a joke. Apparently I used wrong smiley's.
 
I can’t believe the progress I’m making. Day 3 week 2 coming up on Friday and the 24s are already considerably easier than last week. I am doing chin ups/squats/deadlifts and swimming on off days so I’m not exactly resting. Also I’m a carpenter doing a lot of heavy physical work but I continue to get better! Thanks Geoff!
 
I just want to comment on how a combination of light overhead movements (C+P, PP, VPP, C&J, Snatch, mace swings) have really accelerated my right shoulder rehab over the past four weeks. Got injured in November to the extent that for a while I had to lift my right arm with the other just to be able to shave at a tolerable level of pain.

Until 4 weeks ago, OS rocking, naked getups, floor presses and overhead presses with any weight were uncomfortable. Yet, two days ago I was able to clean and press 2x16K for 5 reps with no discomfort!

I'm even encouraged now to cautiously try a week of Giant 3.0 (2x16K) and see how it goes. (My previous C+P best was 2 reps with a single 24K.) I know that The Giant was not designed foe even an advanced stage of rehab, but that can be also said about ETK+, which has been my template for the past four weeks.

Any thoughts or cautionary tales? (My other option is to continue with moderate ETK+ for another 4 weeks as originally planned.)
 
barrak said:
I just want to comment on how a combination of light overhead movements (C+P, PP, VPP, C&J, Snatch, mace swings) have really accelerated my right shoulder rehab over the past four weeks. Got injured in November to the extent that for a while I had to lift my right arm with the other just to be able to shave at a tolerable level of pain.

Until 4 weeks ago, OS rocking, naked getups, floor presses and overhead presses with any weight were uncomfortable. Yet, two days ago I was able to clean and press 2x16K for 5 reps with no discomfort!

I'm even encouraged now to cautiously try a week of Giant 3.0 (2x16K) and see how it goes. (My previous C+P best was 2 reps with a single 24K.) I know that The Giant was not designed foe even an advanced stage of rehab, but that can be also said about ETK+, which has been my template for the past four weeks.

Any thoughts or cautionary tales? (My other option is to continue with moderate ETK+ for another 4 weeks as originally planned.)
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It seems to me that the main value of the Giant and its variations is to work at a medium-heavy, medium-high rep range. This is the range that produces the metabolic effects. I am definitely feeling the 8 rep day in a good way today. I would build a base first with straight sets before enbarking on any type of challenging program. The benefits of starting one at less than your full ability would be small but the costs high if you reinjured your shoulder. It is tough to be patient. I have had sports injuries, but best in the long run.
 
I get it now. My problem is that I don't use programs with prescribed parameters. Neither I call programs by names. The Giant is the first program I bought in probably ten years, and I did it out of interest triggered by the activity around it on this thread.

Browsing the Net I stumbled across the Wolf, which apparently is another popular cookie cutter program on SF. I see now that my suggestion of adding a front squat to the Giant and limiting the number of sets per session would turn the program into some sort of cross between the Giant and the Wolf. Perhaps... But only if... But then again... (a joke)

Jokes aside, I have been wondering for a while if the effect of complex lifts depends on the sequence of its components. For example, are 5 x C&P the same as 5 cleans followed by 5 presses? I am guessing there is a difference, due to the accumulated fatigue in uninterrupted lifts. More so with complexes with more components perhaps. Did anybody experiment with different sequences?
 
I posted before that one day I was unable to complete all reps of 8 on Giant 1.1 so I did a couple of sevens and a six to finish. As I thought, I adapted so the next week was full 8s with a decrease in volume. Yesterday was all 8s and an entire set added so back to decent volume, so it was a good call rather than just stopping the set when my 8s failed. As I have noted before, I just slow down programs a little bit sometimes without messing with the exercise selection or progression schemes of programs and this seems to be an effective strategy that allows me to be working on demanding programs for my age and level. The difficulty of the high rep week forces surprisingly quick adaptations.
 
6was9 said:
I get it now. My problem is that I don't use programs with prescribed parameters. Neither I call programs by names. The Giant is the first program I bought in probably ten years, and I did it out of interest triggered by the activity around it on this thread.

Browsing the Net I stumbled across the Wolf, which apparently is another popular cookie cutter program on SF. I see now that my suggestion of adding a front squat to the Giant and limiting the number of sets per session would turn the program into some sort of cross between the Giant and the Wolf. Perhaps... But only if... But then again... (a joke)

Jokes aside, I have been wondering for a while if the effect of complex lifts depends on the sequence of its components. For example, are 5 x C&P the same as 5 cleans followed by 5 presses? I am guessing there is a difference, due to the accumulated fatigue in uninterrupted lifts. More so with complexes with more components perhaps. Did anybody experiment with different sequences?
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A Giant Wolf, perhaps????

As far as experimenting with sequences, I would not. A good clean sets up a good press. Five consecutive cleans make that first press difficult and make five good presses very difficult. Five consecutive good presses are difficult enough after just one clean!! I believe this would dramatically lower one’s volume and beat you up more than higher volume clean&press, clean&press.......

Again, a press is very rarely better than the clean preceding it. My terminology is that the clean “coils the spring” to enable the press.
 
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guardian7 said:
I posted before that one day I was unable to complete all reps of 8 on Giant 1.1 so I did a couple of sevens and a six to finish. As I thought, I adapted so the next week was full 8s with a decrease in volume. Yesterday was all 8s and an entire set added so back to decent volume, so it was a good call rather than just stopping the set when my 8s failed. As I have noted before, I just slow down programs a little bit sometimes without messing with the exercise selection or progression schemes of programs and this seems to be an effective strategy that allows me to be working on demanding programs for my age and level. The difficulty of the high rep week forces surprisingly quick adaptations.
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WxHerk said:
Exactly!! I have experienced the exact same thing. A lot more weight and reps than I expected.
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@guardian7 and @WxHerk you guys are describing my results too. During the first week of December I did multiple sets of 8s which was new territory for me. I'd have to look back but I think I got like 6 or 7 rounds. I was really deeply fatigued. I hadn't really done higher rep work with 32s before. I figured my "goal" of the 10x10 would be forgotten. Fast forward to March, I got the 10x10. So yes, do one workout at a time and add just a bit each time. If you know you won't get a full set, reduce the time it takes to get last week's work in. And yes, the Giant does work!
 
Anyone have advice for running the Giant while intending to lose a few lbs of fat?

I'm thinking about restricting my carbs on non- lifting days and fuelling myself normally on lifting days so I can do quality work. Only hoping to lose 3kg (~6lbs) after gaining 9kg (~18lbs) over the last 4 months.

Thoughts?
 
Dayz said:
Anyone have advice for running the Giant while intending to lose a few lbs of fat?

I'm thinking about restricting my carbs on non- lifting days and fuelling myself normally on lifting days so I can do quality work. Only hoping to lose 3kg (~6lbs) after gaining 9kg (~18lbs) over the last 4 months.

Thoughts?
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Yup. Sounds like you already have a pretty good plan.
 
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