Greyskull LP

conor78

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Has anyone heard of it used greyskull LP. It's a linear progression barbell routine that also has conditioning built into it. Bought the book and it looks good. Its origins seem to be in Powerlifting and it's s been adapted to suit more mainstream use. Looks solid..
 

Kettlebelephant

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
I used it for almost 3 consecutive months. Admittedly 3 months isn't that long, you could use it for over a year without switching things up, but besides from S&S it is the only program I didn't ditch early because of my training ADD.
It's the one program I recommend to anyone who wants to start training with barbells.
 

conor78

More than 500 posts
Certified Instructor
@Kettleelephant
How did you progress on it? We're you using it for strength, fat loss, hyper trophy? I'm a bit like yourself with the ADD with program hopping though S snd S is a staple. It looks really solid and 3 days a week is all I can realistically get in the gym so should work well. Did you maintain s and s on rest days??
 

Kettlebelephant

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I don't have 1RM numbers, but during that 3 months I only had to reset the bench & press once and had continuous progress on the squat & deadlift. My allI was still a novice lifter back than and besides working with KBs as part of Crossfit never worked with them. So I didn't even know S&S existed at that time.

I used it for strength, fat loss and hypertrophy ;) As I said I was still a novice and making noob gains which resulted in hypertrophy, fat loss and strength gains at the same time. Johnny claims that with the right plugins and nutrition it adds solid hypertrophy and strength and I believe him, even if you are beyond the beginner gains.
Without going into too much detail about my training and body history, right now after over half a year of constant S&S I look the best I ever have, but the look after 3 months on GSLP comes close to it while also kind of being the foundation for my body as it is now.

Strength gains don't come as fast as for example Starting Strength (SS), but you'll be much fresher. SS demands 100% focus and dedication. GSLP leaves a lot more room for other sports or partying on the weekends and stuff like that. Simply it fits much much better into everyday life.
I guess PTTP would be even better in that department, but I didn't want to go to the gym 5x per week. To me GLSP is the perfect middlegound between SS and PTTP.
Having the goal to always beat my previous rep record on the amrap set was really motivating and one thing that kept me going.

FYI I was just doing the basic program with only pullups as plugin (different grip every day, mon-pullups, wed-parallel, fri-chins) and farmers walks as a finisher.

I don't think it's a good idea to do S&S on the rest days. A couple of easy swings and getups will be fine, but not doing S&S as in actively progressing through the program (increasing weight, decreasing rest).
 

conor78

More than 500 posts
Certified Instructor
Sounds like you made good gains with it. It looks a solid program. I've run Wendler 531 last year but time has been the biggest factor, the days of getting to the gym 5 days a week are a distant dream. In fairness S and S is a fantastic go to program and it seems to create the "fighter" physique they Pavel mentions in the book. The other thing I don't get with S and S is DOMS which a lot of squatting will definitely produce. I'm hitting double bw in DL and about 1.75 be with squat, bench is bw and that is something that my ego keeps dragging me back to. I'll run it for 6 weeks and see how I go..
Thanks
 

Kettlebelephant

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
No problem :)
What are your goals exactly? I'm asking because at 2x BW deadlift and 1.75x squat you're close to the point of dimishing returns (at least that's what Dan John says) and going beyond that is really only necessary if you want to compete in powerlifting/oly or another kind of strength or contact sport (javelin throwing, shotputting, football etc.).
For what it's worth, going from 16 to 32 in S&S has done more for my everyday-strength (moving furniture, open heavy doors, jumping, sprinting) than increasing my squat from 90Kg to 140Kg. Barbells kind of only made me barbell-strong. I know this is different for other people.
If increasing your bench is the goal I think there are more specific programs for that (although I can't name one, because it was never a specific goal for me).
 

conor78

More than 500 posts
Certified Instructor
To be honest I haven't set any specific goals recently. I spent most of 2015 on S and S and then double KB programs G Nuepert in particular. I also focuses on pull ups with FPull up programme and it worked a treat. Like yourself when I hit the 32 and simple goal I felt great and I was doing bjj which S and S suits. I haven't really attacked the barbell since 2014 with 531. Greyskull LP looks great but will it give me any more than maybe progression up to 40kg with S and S...decisions, decisions
 

JamesO

More than 500 posts
I used it for a few months about five years ago. Funny that you bring it up, too. I thought about it last week for the first time in years. I do remember enjoying how flexible it was for different goals.
 

Steve Freides

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Staff member
Senior Certified Instructor
No problem :)
What are your goals exactly? I'm asking because at 2x BW deadlift and 1.75x squat you're close to the point of dimishing returns (at least that's what Dan John says) and going beyond that is really only necessary if you want to compete in powerlifting/oly or another kind of strength or contact sport (javelin throwing, shotputting, football etc.).
For what it's worth, going from 16 to 32 in S&S has done more for my everyday-strength (moving furniture, open heavy doors, jumping, sprinting) than increasing my squat from 90Kg to 140Kg. Barbells kind of only made me barbell-strong. I know this is different for other people.
If increasing your bench is the goal I think there are more specific programs for that (although I can't name one, because it was never a specific goal for me).
I don't agree. If you have a sport for which improving your PL numbers could get in the way, that's one thing, but if you don't, you don't need to be a competing power lifter in order to benefit from going past a double bw DL or similar milestone.

-S-
 

T2725

Double-Digit Post Count
Agree @Steve Freides. I don't think you can ever be too strong in any sport!

A 2x Bwt DL and 1.75x Bwt Sq would have to be minimum standard for the average male gym goer.

Once you get beyond 3x Bwt in both lifts, you would never really struggle in life activities. Strength endurance on the other hand, is something different.
 

Steve Freides

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Senior Certified Instructor
If I may play Devil's Advocate, without a specific goal in mind, walking is sufficient conditioning. I've done great with 2x/week press and deadlift, and walk ~40 minutes most days. Felt great, body composition stayed good, and the walking was all done with a focus on relaxation, no "power" walking.

-S-
 

Ivan Merl

Triple-Digit Post Count
Good point Steve. I often ponder, how strong is strong enough for your life, hobbies, or sport? My main hobby in the summer is SCA/HEMA(medieval combat) and I dare say that most people never workout. In the winter I ski, and while I feel that being strong is helpful it really isn't necessary to squat or even workout you legs to be a great skier.
 

Kettlebelephant

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
It's still true that it's not necessary to go beyond those benchmarks.
Going from "weak" to a 0.75-1xBW Press, 1.25-1.5xBW Bench, 1.75-2xBW Squat & 2-2.5xBW Deadlift will greaty improve your athletic ability and readiness for life. Sure going beyond that will still improve your performance, but you'll need to invest a lot and get very little improvements in return -> the law of diminishing returns.
Training to go beyond those benchmarks usually requires specific programs that take away to much energy(recovery) and/or time from your sport specific training. That's why at this point almost all coaches simply try to maintain that level and work on other qualities.
If you've got nothing else to do then by all means strive for bigger numbers, because a 3xBW Deadlift will always be better than a 2xBW Deadlift.
However if you're after something different, the path from a 2xBW to a 3xBW Deadlift could keep you away from that goal.

conor78 is very close to the point of diminishing returns, that's why I asked for his exact goals.
If for example his goal would be to maintain his strength but increase his conditioning (from his OP I get that conditioning seems to be somewhat important), I'd say GSLP is not the best fit, because a linear progression at that level (1.75xBW Squat & 2xBW Deadlift) will very likely take too much out of you to do any productive conditioning work.
If on the other hand someone with a 0.75xBW Squat & 1xBW Deadlift would ask the same question, I'd tell him to do GSLP, because it would make him strong first and that alone would increase the performance in many ways (even conditioning).

Agree @Steve Freides. I don't think you can ever be too strong in any sport!
I agree, but as I said because of the diminishing returns getting past a certain point (the benchmarks I mentioned) it takes too much away from your sport specific training.
Let's have a soccer player who reached the benchmarks. Now we clone him. You increase your clones lifts by another 10-25% by focusing on strength protocols that leave limited room for other training. I just maintain my clones strength with minimal stuff and focus on running technique, shooting & passing drills and things like that. At the end of that "taining cycle" who would have the better soccer player?
Certainly me.
This is true for most sports, besides the ones I mentioned in my other post.

I don't agree. If you have a sport for which improving your PL numbers could get in the way, that's one thing, but if you don't, you don't need to be a competing power lifter in order to benefit from going past a double bw DL or similar milestone.
Good point Steve. I often ponder, how strong is strong enough for your life, hobbies, or sport? My main hobby in the summer is SCA/HEMA(medieval combat) and I dare say that most people never workout. In the winter I ski, and while I feel that being strong is helpful it really isn't necessary to squat or even workout you legs to be a great skier.
Of course I can not back this up with any kind of scientific research, but when it comes to the things life can throw at you, I argue that maintaining the benchmarks and then focusing on yoga for a year, then focusing on swimming for the next year, then focusing on running the next year, then climbing etc... (I think you get point of what I'm trying to say :)) will have a much bigger impact than using your limited time to train (because of family, job etc.) to increase your lifts beyond the benchmarks.
 

conor78

More than 500 posts
Certified Instructor
Thanks guys for the replies, great feedback. I have been reading quite a bit of Dan John over the holidays and he talks quite a bit about the quadrants and the risks of being in quadrant 3. I played competitive sport for 20 years as a soccer Gk and 60% of that was dedicated to drilling and technique, 20% conditioning and the rest was divided up with mobility and match time. This made total sense and to be honest in that area I'm not sure the barbell would be useful apart from O lifts to increase power, a lot of soccer g keepers are increasingly using yoga and also kettlebells. Moving into quadrant 3 brings its own challenges and leads to program hopping. My ego is pestering me about going to attack my bench press but this would come at the expense of something. I've had a week run through with GLP and I do like it.the flexibility appeals to me. From a conditioning perspective 100 burpees in 5 minutes is quite a challenge..
Thanks
 

Kettlebelephant

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
@conor78
Fellow goalie here :) Played "professional" in my youth (almost up to youth national teams).
I recently got back into it on a recreational level. Heavy TGUs + swings seem to improve your ability to get up quickly with only your bodyweight, which you know is a very important skill for goalkeepers.

The original 5 Villain Challenges are definitely something I want to attack in the future. The 100 burpees/5min is one of them.

If you like it just stay with it. Better to do something productive while you figure out what you want than doing nothing at all.
 

conor78

More than 500 posts
Certified Instructor
Good man, always good to meet someone from the goalkeeper's Union. You must have played to a decent level. I'm 38 now and I finished when I was 33; always miss it, but family commitments etc eat into your time. Worked with some young goalkeepers recently and I was struck by how much emphasis they put on their bench squats etc. I did a bit of that when I played but nothing like I do now. If I was doing it all again, I would definitely use TGU and swings which have a direct crossover to the sport. Love working out now, but you're right better to do something than nothing at all. Used S and S for most of 2015 and hit Simple. I have a bit more time now and could possibly get three sessions in the gym each week. I have Kb, Pull up bar etc so I can work out at home. The burpee challenge looks to be a worthy goal. I still have a few sets of Gloves lying around mmmm...
 
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Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Senior Certified Instructor
The benchmarks are necessarily not individual. There is nothing wrong and everything right about having priorities and making sure that what's supposed to help one's main priority isn't hindering it instead - I think we can all agree with that.

-S-
 

billyp

Double-Digit Post Count
For what it's worth, going from 16 to 32 in S&S has done more for my everyday-strength (moving furniture, open heavy doors, jumping, sprinting) than increasing my squat from 90Kg to 140Kg. Barbells kind of only made me barbell-strong. I know this is different for other people.
If increasing your bench is the goal I think there are more specific programs for that (although I can't name one, because it was never a specific goal for me).
That's a great point about moving furniture, open heavy doors, jumping, sprinting. My thoughts EXACTLY. For me training should yield the benefits of moving furniture (like you said), picking things up from the ground with ease, carrying things with ease and having the strength and conditioning to defend oneself. I may have to look more closely at S&S. That program is in ETK, am I correct? Thanks!
 

taedoju

More than 300 posts
Certified Instructor
Remember S&S is GPP program.
GreySkull is program for novice progression with some conditioning, focus is on strength in basic barbell lifts.
This program is very easy and straightforward.
It will work as everything works, for a while.
Imo you shouldn't have asked and just do the program and have opinion by yourself, if you doubt it don't do it.
:)
 
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