Other/Mixed Guidance on program combining Pavel’s books

[tomvogel01]

Hi,
I am new to the StrongFirst community and have recently been red pilled in Pavel's ways by reading most of his books.

I would like to combine Power To The People, Simple and Sinister, HardStyle Abs and the flexibility program in Relax into Stretch in the following session:
- 2 sets of 5 deadlifts
- 1 arm Kettlebell swings 10 * 10
- 10 Turkish Getup
- Janda sit ups / stretching session on alternate days

Progressions for the kettlebell exercises would follow S&S (i.e. 4 weeks changing 2 sets to a heavier K) and for the deadlift follow PTTP (i.e. cycling using step loading) with focus on technique and generating tension and avoiding fatigue during the practice.

I personally like having the same workout every day with the occasional day off.

Time not being a factor as I am currently not working, is this too much and unrealistic? Ultimately I realise that. the ultimate authority will be my body but any thoughts and guidance would be appreciated.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Welcome to the forum

May we know a little more about you?

Training background
History of injuries
What weights you are currently using

 

[cwheeler33]

Dennis Hopper's quote from the movie Colors applies perfectly here:

There's two bulls standing on top of a mountain. The younger one says to the older one: "Hey pop, let's say we run down there and %&^$ one of them cows". The older one says: "No son. Let’s walk down and %&^$ 'em all".

Start with one program, either PttP (with HS Abs) or S&S - Choose one not both. Get up to their "minimum standards" before switching it up. Taking your time will get you there faster with less injury. After you get to minimums and have gained experience, then explore personalized mods.

 

[Bauer]

Hi,
I am new to the StrongFirst community and have recently been red pilled in Pavel's ways by reading most of his books.

I would like to combine Power To The People, Simple and Sinister, HardStyle Abs and the flexibility program in Relax into Stretch in the following session:
- 2 sets of 5 deadlifts
- 1 arm Kettlebell swings 10 * 10
- 10 Turkish Getup
- Janda sit ups / stretching session on alternate days

Progressions for the kettlebell exercises would follow S&S (i.e. 4 weeks changing 2 sets to a heavier K) and for the deadlift follow PTTP (i.e. cycling using step loading) with focus on technique and generating tension and avoiding fatigue during the practice.

I personally like having the same workout every day with the occasional day off.

Time not being a factor as I am currently not working, is this too much and unrealistic? Ultimately I realise that. the ultimate authority will be my body but any thoughts and guidance would be appreciated.

You could combine all of them, but probably not in the same session.

STRETCHING/ABS:
Stretch in the evening, as per S&S (Straddle QL, 9090). Add one or two stretches from RiS, if you like. Add one or two sets of direct ab work if recovery is good (either in the warmup and/or at the end of each strength session).

STRENGTH
Option A: 2+2 days of PTTP and S&S.
Option B: 2 Week blocks, alternating PTTP and S&S.

If you want to know more about block training, there are a couple of interesting threads I could point you to.

 

[tomvogel01]

Dennis Hopper's quote from the movie Colors applies perfectly here:

Start with one program, either PttP (with HS Abs) or S&S - Choose one not both. Get up to their "minimum standards" before switching it up. Taking your time will get you there faster with less injury. After you get to minimums and have gained experience, then explore personalized mods.

I think I will do that. The lack of tiredness in Pavel’s strength sessions is not an invitation to do more, I suspect.

 

[Adachi]

I think I will do that. The lack of tiredness in Pavel’s strength sessions is not an invitation to do more, I suspect.

 

[ILweare]

Pick the tool that you can practice the most consistently, either barbell or kettlebell, and start there until the “simple” standard is reached.

For most people, that’s a kettlebell. Get one to start and practice with it more days of the week than not.

It would help to know more about your training history, injuries, and current strength levels and goals to understand what you need and where you want to go.

Good luck and have fun on your journey!

 

[TimothyGander]

Kettlebell swings (especially with 10 rep sets) and deadlifts in the same daily workout are way too much in my opinion. Both are hip hinge lifts working mostly the same muscles. Either do them in blocks as @Bauer suggests or rotate them daily (i.e. Mon-Wen-Fri deadlifts, Tue-Thu-Sat swings).

The get-up already contains a sit-up component, so I'm not sure if Janda situps wouldn't be too much. Maybe you could still stick a set of five after the main lifts, but I'm not convinced it would be productive.

RiS drills are fine to do after lifting, but doing them every other day is way too much, unless you would stretch different body parts on different days (for example alternating upper and lower body stretches). You may also give yourself a weekly day off lifting and dedicate it solely to stretching.

 

[silveraw]

I don't have the books handy but I recall there being a section in the back about combining them and how to do it.

 

[cwheeler33]

I don't have the books handy but I recall there being a section in the back about combining them and how to do it.

no there isn't... There is a suggestion that once you complete the Timeless Simple you have choices.
1) Keep going and achieve Sinister
2) Deepen your KB skills (practice other movements) and then come back
3) Chase down some of the barbell strength goals such as a 2.5x bodyweight deadlift (or500lbs). Then come back if you want...
There is also a blurb about what to do if you stall on your road to Sinister

But nothing about combining S&S with something else. It's a standalone minimalist routine done daily until you hit Timeless Simple.

 

[silveraw]

But nothing about combining S&S with something else. It's a standalone minimalist routine done daily until you hit Timeless Simple.

Ahh, you are right, I'm thinking ETK where he recommended cycling 2-12 week blocks of PTTP, ETK, and NW.

 

[Bauer]

no there isn't... There is a suggestion that once you complete the Timeless Simple you have choices.
1) Keep going and achieve Sinister
2) Deepen your KB skills (practice other movements) and then come back
3) Chase down some of the barbell strength goals such as a 2.5x bodyweight deadlift (or500lbs). Then come back if you want...
There is also a blurb about what to do if you stall on your road to Sinister

But nothing about combining S&S with something else. It's a standalone minimalist routine done daily until you hit Timeless Simple.

There is, however, the suggestion to run it 2-3x per week alongside other physical work or strength training:

If you follow a high-load strength training regimen, seriously training for a sport, or have a physically demanding occupation, do S&S two to three times a week. Do not expect to progress at the same rate as a girevik or girevichka dedicating five to six times a week to Simple & Sinister.

And yes, ETK gives some ideas about combining different plans.

 

[Ege]

You could combine all of them, but probably not in the same session.

STRETCHING/ABS:
Stretch in the evening, as per S&S (Straddle QL, 9090). Add one or two stretches from RiS, if you like. Add one or two sets of direct ab work if recovery is good (either in the warmup and/or at the end of each strength session).

STRENGTH
Option A: 2+2 days of PTTP and S&S.
Option B: 2 Week blocks, alternating PTTP and S&S.

If you want to know more about block training, there are a couple of interesting threads I could point you to.

Hi Bauer;

Could you please point us to some good “block” training threads? It is a recent interest for me and I want to utilize this.

Best;

Ege

 

[Ege]

There is, however, the suggestion to run it 2-3x per week alongside other physical work or strength training:


And yes, ETK gives some ideas about combining different plans.

Hi;

I remember that, in the book it says, if you are running an other strength program do 2 S&S sessions. Otherwise try to do a minimum of 3, 6 being better… Hope I remember correctly.

 

[silveraw]

Hi Bauer;

Could you please point us to some good “block” training threads? It is a recent interest for me and I want to utilize this.

Best;

Ege

Programming Improv - Block Training Thread

I was having conversations about this with @Pete L, and @LoneRider and @fabskl have asked me about it, so I thought I might as well start a general thread on it and open the conversation. I have been fascinated by the idea of block training for a long time. In ROTK and Easy Strength there are...

www.strongfirst.com

 

[cwheeler33]

Some minor amendments to my comments above... for those going above the 32kg...

One thing people keep forgetting about in S&S is the importance of the "warm up drills". Especially the Goblet squat. That warm up includes some particularly heavy goblets work. Read Pavel Macek's article on the subject. Also remember there are 2 required stretches included in the program.
S&S: Tips for Heavy Goblet Squats

The other thing I would consider only AFTER reaching the 32kg standard is incorporating "Strength Aerobic" days. Until you reach 32's as the book so aptly implies "you have no strength to endure" don't bother adding in the extra work. But after you hit the 32kg you may need to tone down the number of sessions for "recovery". Your newfound experience leading up to the standard will help you discover your personal abilities to recover. The article on "Strength Aerobics" suggests alternating between S&S and SA (3 days each per week). You will adjust the numbers based on your well developed experience without needing to ask someone else. Your training log helps keep that evidence for future planning.
Strength Aerobics

 

[TheWolf]

I asked a similar question in here recently, albeit about routinely switching between PTTP and S&S.

Based on the general consensus, and as Bauer says below, I have opted for completing S&S for two weeks as prescribed, and then PTTP for two weeks as prescribed in a step-loading manner. Amongst this, I have added the fighter pull up program, push ups (using the fpp methodology), ab rollouts, and some days see either boxing or running.

I further read on here, from Fabion Zonin via a member, that two week blocks is sufficient for improvement on each program without really losing conditioning from the other while off it.

You could combine all of them, but probably not in the same session.

STRETCHING/ABS:
Stretch in the evening, as per S&S (Straddle QL, 9090). Add one or two stretches from RiS, if you like. Add one or two sets of direct ab work if recovery is good (either in the warmup and/or at the end of each strength session).

STRENGTH
Option A: 2+2 days of PTTP and S&S.
Option B: 2 Week blocks, alternating PTTP and S&S.

If you want to know more about block training, there are a couple of interesting threads I could point you to.

 

[Bauer]

Hi Bauer;

Could you please point us to some good “block” training threads? It is a recent interest for me and I want to utilize this.

Best;

Ege

Programming Improv - Block Training Thread

I was having conversations about this with @Pete L, and @LoneRider and @fabskl have asked me about it, so I thought I might as well start a general thread on it and open the conversation. I have been fascinated by the idea of block training for a long time. In ROTK and Easy Strength there are...

www.strongfirst.com

Thanks @silveraw
This podcast episode with Fabio Zonin is great and mentions block training a few times:

The Strength Connection: #90 - Fabio Zonin: The Forgotten Programming on Apple Podcasts

Show The Strength Connection, Ep #90 - Fabio Zonin: The Forgotten Programming - Jul 22, 2022

podcasts.apple.com

Here is a short summary of the research and some options:

Kettlebell - S&S and PTTP...Good Combo or Overkill?

I'm not sure where to post this but, I've always wondered is it possible to combine S&S with PTTP without burning myself out? For example S&S 2x a week/PTTP 3x a week, etc.

www.strongfirst.com

 

[Ege]

Thanks @silveraw
This podcast episode with Fabio Zonin is great and mentions block training a few times:

The Strength Connection: #90 - Fabio Zonin: The Forgotten Programming on Apple Podcasts

Show The Strength Connection, Ep #90 - Fabio Zonin: The Forgotten Programming - Jul 22, 2022

podcasts.apple.com

Here is a short summary of the research and some options:

Kettlebell - S&S and PTTP...Good Combo or Overkill?

I'm not sure where to post this but, I've always wondered is it possible to combine S&S with PTTP without burning myself out? For example S&S 2x a week/PTTP 3x a week, etc.

www.strongfirst.com

Thanks these are fantastic resources to understand the concept. Especially the podcast. Fabio gives a very simple to understand example of the concept half way through the podcast.