Health and fitness as a moral decision

[watchnerd]

" There I was, eating a salad of yayo, zanax, and Don Julio, at my favorite peeler bar."

"when in walked a very short person, dressed head to toe in green paint like a Twi'lek dancer."

 

[watchnerd]

And so, I wonder, like you, what a moral system rooted in the embodied and physical would look like, and what kinds of imperatives would it demand?

Animals seem to be capable of good physical health without a moral system.

Which begs the question: why would humans need a moral system for physical health unless the mind is involved?

Exercise, rest, and nutrition don't require a specific moral code.

Nor does a sense of purpose or social connections.

I haven't seen any scientific studies that indicate a specific moral code (as opposed to a general sense of purpose and social connections) leads to better health.

 

[Xcal]

It puts me in mind of a poem by William Blake:

"What is the price of Experience? do men buy it for a song?
....
Preach temperance: say he is overgorg'd and drowns his wit
In strong drink, though you know that bread and water are all
He can afford. Flatter his wife, pity his children, till we can
Reduce all to our will, as spaniels are taught with art."
--William Blake

thanks for sharing this poem. Blake is a heavy poet, and this is deep and dark commentry on society. Still relevant today as was back in the 18th Century. Now that we have a smaller world due to globalization, the same mood applies when discussing the Global West 'versus' the Global Rest.

There's a scene in the movie Trading Places ...

haha! I need to find this movie again. I remember waiting till my parents were asleep when I put on the VHS

The challenge with religious motivations for health is that they don't enforce compliance outside of that religion.

e.g. I might acknowledge an understanding of Islamic views on health, but as a non-Muslim I don't feel compelled to follow them for reasons of being a good Muslim.

That makes them unscalable beyond particular communities.

Yes, this is very subjective. another example is that I am not Christian, but do my best to abide by the 10 Commandments because I believe them to be generally good for me and society. (notice me=first!). so there is a possibility of scaling beyond particular/secular
communities, however it takes an open-minded society to breakdown the barriers.

I've been in many situations with Muslim friends and colleagues where I would sip on my alchoholic beverage engaging with them. There are other Muslims who would never be caught in that situation but still want to engage with me, so I would leave out the alcohol when engaging with them. My Hindu-vegetarian grandmother, for example, would never enter a house of a meat-eater, she was a lovely person but inflexible on that point, and she was always so glad to have meat-eaters come home for vegetarian meals

I haven't seen any scientific studies that indicate a specific moral code (as opposed to a general sense of purpose and social connections) leads to better health.

maybe history is our better teacher than science in this regards? those 300 spartans seemed pretty healthy due to their societal codes. umm, that was a historical documentary right?

 

[watchnerd]

maybe history is our better teacher than science in this regards? those 300 spartans seemed pretty healthy due to their societal codes. umm, that was a historical documentary right?

So you want to follow a model based upon a slave-holding military elite that started military training at age 7, orchestrated the annual murder of helots by students, institutionalized pederasty, forbade marriage until age 30, and lived on a diet of mostly pig's blood stew?

Dude, we can't even get people to go to Planet Fitness and it has free pizza....

 

[offwidth]

Animals seem to be capable of good physical health without a moral system.

You haven’t met my dog…

 

[rwleonard]

So you want to follow a model based upon a slave-holding military elite that started military training at age 7, orchestrated the annual murder of helots by students, institutionalized pederasty, forbade marriage until age 30, and lived on a diet of mostly pig's blood stew?

Throw in a little hedonism and I'm on board.

 

[Brett Jones]

Moving on....

 

[watchnerd]

Throw in a little hedonism and I'm on board.

Nothing says pleasure-seeking like black stew -- vinegar, salt, blood, and boiled meat.

 

[WxHerk]

Nothing says pleasure-seeking like black stew -- vinegar, salt, blood, and boiled meat.

Down in this part of the World it needs one more vital ingredient:

 

[BrianCF]

There's a scene in the movie Trading Places where Denholm Elliott, disguised as a Catholic priest, pulls out a hip flask and offers a drink to Eddie Murphy, disguised as an exchange student from Cameroon. Eddie Murphy declines, saying, "I do not drink. It is against my religion." To which Denholm Elliott replies, "I always say, religion's a fine thing -- taken in moderation," before taking a swig himself.

Eddie's "quart of blood" technique would take down all of you BJJ and MMA guys.

 

[rwleonard]

Nothing lowers the bar on pleasure-seeking like black stew -- vinegar, salt, blood, and boiled meat.

FIFY

 

[watchnerd]

FIFY

Plutarch's Life of Pelopidas has recorded that an inhabitant of Sybaris had once claimed, "it was no great thing for the Spartans to seek death in the wars in order to escape so many hardships and such a wretched life as theirs."[76] Historians such as Maciej Kokoszko and Joan P. Alcock have interpreted this claim as supporting evidence of ancient Sparta's unbearable customs and food.[61][77][57]

Black soup - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Steve Freides]

Exercise, rest, and nutrition don't require a specific moral code.

Well, yes and no. Let's talk about nutrition and diet.

Learning to sense one's hunger and eating accordingly would solve a whole host of health problems yet many people in Western societies seem to find this difficult-to-impossible, and if you can't learn to eat when you're hungry and not more than that, then you need something else to tell you to be responsible for your health. There's been a diet plan commercial playing on the local news radio station here where the guy says, "I did it for my kid" when discussing why he went on this diet plan and lost 138 lbs. I'd say that qualifies as nutrition requiring a specific moral code.

-S-

 

[silveraw]

I'd say that qualifies as nutrition requiring a specific moral code.

I dunno, I don't think it was required .

Kim Jong Un lost around that same amount of weight. I don't think he was following that father's specific moral code.

(again per my first comment, making value based decisions is always a good thing. But making a jump to nutrition is directly reflective of morals is a bit much and an example of a first world problem.)

 

[watchnerd]

Well, yes and no. Let's talk about nutrition and diet.

Learning to sense one's hunger and eating accordingly would solve a whole host of health problems yet many people in Western societies seem to find this difficult-to-impossible, and if you can't learn to eat when you're hungry and not more than that, then you need something else to tell you to be responsible for your health. There's been a diet plan commercial playing on the local news radio station here where the guy says, "I did it for my kid" when discussing why he went on this diet plan and lost 138 lbs. I'd say that qualifies as nutrition requiring a specific moral code.

-S-

I don't feel sensing one's hunger and eating accordingly requires good morals.

I could be a complete sociopath and practice good nutrition.

Plenty of scammer IG influencers seem to be both sketchy morally, but also very good at body composition.

 

[watchnerd]

I dunno, I don't think it was required .

Kim Jong Un lost around that same amount of weight. I don't think he was following that father's specific moral code.

(again per my first comment, making value based decisions is always a good thing. But making a jump to nutrition is directly reflective of morals is a bit much and an example of a first world problem.)

And, conversely, there appear to be a high number of exploitive narcissists who do nutrition well enough to look great.

 

[silveraw]

And, conversely, there appear to be a high number of exploitive narcissists who do nutrition well enough to look great.

Kim Jong Un

I mean.. I wouldn't say he looks great but he does fit the bill well enough.

Sorry Steve, I think the forum is now perma-banned in the DPRK.

 

[watchnerd]

I mean.. I wouldn't say he looks great but he does fit the bill well enough.

Sorry Steve, I think the forum is now perma-banned in the DPRK.

If morals are essential to fitness, how do we end up with...

It's literally based on workouts that "bad people" do*.

*or a work of total fiction, depending if you believe Paul Wade is real or fake

 

[watchnerd]

There's been a diet plan commercial playing on the local news radio station here where the guy says, "I did it for my kid" when discussing why he went on this diet plan and lost 138 lbs. I'd say that qualifies as nutrition requiring a specific moral code.

-S-

I'd say that qualifies as clever targeted marketing.

 

[Steve Freides]

I don't feel sensing one's hunger and eating accordingly requires good morals.

I could be a complete sociopath and practice good nutrition.

Plenty of scammer IG influencers seem to be both sketchy morally, but also very good at body composition.

I don't think I made my point very clearly, will try again. Sensing one's hunger and eating accordingly does not require good morals. Eating responsibly without sensing one's hunger means another 'force' will have to be at work to ensure good health and nutrition, and sometimes that good force is wanting to do it for your health, for your kids, etc.

-S-