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Help me dishonor myself - Honorably!

Stoneface77

Stoneface77

Level 4 Valued Member
Looking for some advice on incorporating aerobic training/cardio (gasp!) into my routine.

For background: I'm 46 yrs old, LEO, work 55-60 hours in a normal week, 3 teenagers at home. Been training with kettlebells almost exclusively for about 3 years now. I have most recently been running the Axe protocol, H2H swings to start with but am now using snatches with the 28kg. I really like the anti-glycolytic style of training- steady paced, no exhaustion, plenty of energy for my long days, strength gains that I can see and maintain.

However, I just had my yearly physical, which is very thorough and includes a CPET test on the bike for VO2 max and cardio function. The result was that my VO2 max is in the "poor" range. Doc suggested plenty of Zone 2 work to begin shifting that curve and moving my anaerobic threshold (I'm paraphrasing). Problem is, according to the results, my Zone 2 HR is something like 95-120 bpm. If I even try to run, my HR is spiking to 130-150.

To add insult to injury, I am about to transfer to a unit that requires a PFT which includes a 1.5 mile run in 14:33. So I need to be training for that, while simultaneously focusing on Zone 2 LISS cardio-- all while keeping up my strength with my beloved KB.

I first got into KB's because of the simplicity and minimalistic nature of the training, and the time-efficient results. Now I am struggling to figure out a reasonable training routine, so I am looking for suggestions.

Right now I am just making the effort to go for as many 30-45 min walks as possible and incorporate an interval run into my week (run 1 min, walk till HR comes down, repeat).

Is this a reasonable protocol? Should I switch to a more intensive KB program to challenge my aerobic capacity more? I await the forum's wisdom.
 
Stoneface77 said:
Looking for some advice on incorporating aerobic training/cardio (gasp!) into my routine.

For background: I'm 46 yrs old, LEO, work 55-60 hours in a normal week, 3 teenagers at home. Been training with kettlebells almost exclusively for about 3 years now. I have most recently been running the Axe protocol, H2H swings to start with but am now using snatches with the 28kg. I really like the anti-glycolytic style of training- steady paced, no exhaustion, plenty of energy for my long days, strength gains that I can see and maintain.

However, I just had my yearly physical, which is very thorough and includes a CPET test on the bike for VO2 max and cardio function. The result was that my VO2 max is in the "poor" range. Doc suggested plenty of Zone 2 work to begin shifting that curve and moving my anaerobic threshold (I'm paraphrasing). Problem is, according to the results, my Zone 2 HR is something like 95-120 bpm. If I even try to run, my HR is spiking to 130-150.

To add insult to injury, I am about to transfer to a unit that requires a PFT which includes a 1.5 mile run in 14:33. So I need to be training for that, while simultaneously focusing on Zone 2 LISS cardio-- all while keeping up my strength with my beloved KB.

I first got into KB's because of the simplicity and minimalistic nature of the training, and the time-efficient results. Now I am struggling to figure out a reasonable training routine, so I am looking for suggestions.

Right now I am just making the effort to go for as many 30-45 min walks as possible and incorporate an interval run into my week (run 1 min, walk till HR comes down, repeat).

Is this a reasonable protocol? Should I switch to a more intensive KB program to challenge my aerobic capacity more? I await the forum's wisdom.
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I would walk as much as possible. As much as we sit walking 20-60 minutes once or twice a day is great. I didn’t know zone 2 was in that range but that’s what I’m in when I walk. I wouldn’t go crazy on the on training. If you already train ace 2x per week I would just walk every day. And do whatever strength work you can. If you switch to something more like simple and sinister swings a 1.5 mile run should be fairly easy. I did a pt test a few years ago and only was training kettlebells and got my 1.5 miles test in under 12:00 without even running. You will get there just don’t freak out and go all one more rep or die on us.
 
Luis T. Gonzalez said:
I didn’t know zone 2 was in that range but that’s what I’m in when I walk.
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Yeah I was a little surprised by that but it's consistent I guess with the idea that you are just running off your aerobic system and the ability to burn fat for fuel, which you should be able to keep up for a very long time theoretically. They calculated the zone specifically for me based on my results on the test (based on where my AT showed to be, etc).

Thanks for the response.
 
Stoneface77 said:
Yeah I was a little surprised by that but it's consistent I guess with the idea that you are just running off your aerobic system and the ability to burn fat for fuel, which you should be able to keep up for a very long time theoretically. They calculated the zone specifically for me based on my results on the test (based on where my AT showed to be, etc).

Thanks for the response.
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You’re welcome brother.
 
Stoneface77 said:
Looking for some advice on incorporating aerobic training/cardio (gasp!) into my routine.

For background: I'm 46 yrs old, LEO, work 55-60 hours in a normal week, 3 teenagers at home. Been training with kettlebells almost exclusively for about 3 years now. I have most recently been running the Axe protocol, H2H swings to start with but am now using snatches with the 28kg. I really like the anti-glycolytic style of training- steady paced, no exhaustion, plenty of energy for my long days, strength gains that I can see and maintain.

However, I just had my yearly physical, which is very thorough and includes a CPET test on the bike for VO2 max and cardio function. The result was that my VO2 max is in the "poor" range. Doc suggested plenty of Zone 2 work to begin shifting that curve and moving my anaerobic threshold (I'm paraphrasing). Problem is, according to the results, my Zone 2 HR is something like 95-120 bpm. If I even try to run, my HR is spiking to 130-150.

To add insult to injury, I am about to transfer to a unit that requires a PFT which includes a 1.5 mile run in 14:33. So I need to be training for that, while simultaneously focusing on Zone 2 LISS cardio-- all while keeping up my strength with my beloved KB.

I first got into KB's because of the simplicity and minimalistic nature of the training, and the time-efficient results. Now I am struggling to figure out a reasonable training routine, so I am looking for suggestions.

Right now I am just making the effort to go for as many 30-45 min walks as possible and incorporate an interval run into my week (run 1 min, walk till HR comes down, repeat).

Is this a reasonable protocol? Should I switch to a more intensive KB program to challenge my aerobic capacity more? I await the forum's wisdom.
Click to expand...
Please check out these two guides. The first is a simple "do this" recipe for success. The run program is our focus here:

PT: The U.S. Air Force Fitness Assessment, Longevity & Quality of Life – Be Well and Strong

This second is an explanation of what is going on and how to build your own:


What is your recent 1.5 mile time? When will you be tested? What does your other t raining look like? Do you have any injuries or health issues you are also working around?

A very successful schedule I have done is simply alternate kettlebell sessions with runs. Depending on my schedule, that could be 3+3 in a week, or even just 2 of one and 1 of the other.
 
Stoneface77 said:
Looking for some advice on incorporating aerobic training/cardio (gasp!) into my routine.

For background: I'm 46 yrs old, LEO, work 55-60 hours in a normal week, 3 teenagers at home. Been training with kettlebells almost exclusively for about 3 years now. I have most recently been running the Axe protocol, H2H swings to start with but am now using snatches with the 28kg. I really like the anti-glycolytic style of training- steady paced, no exhaustion, plenty of energy for my long days, strength gains that I can see and maintain.

However, I just had my yearly physical, which is very thorough and includes a CPET test on the bike for VO2 max and cardio function. The result was that my VO2 max is in the "poor" range. Doc suggested plenty of Zone 2 work to begin shifting that curve and moving my anaerobic threshold (I'm paraphrasing). Problem is, according to the results, my Zone 2 HR is something like 95-120 bpm. If I even try to run, my HR is spiking to 130-150.

To add insult to injury, I am about to transfer to a unit that requires a PFT which includes a 1.5 mile run in 14:33. So I need to be training for that, while simultaneously focusing on Zone 2 LISS cardio-- all while keeping up my strength with my beloved KB.

I first got into KB's because of the simplicity and minimalistic nature of the training, and the time-efficient results. Now I am struggling to figure out a reasonable training routine, so I am looking for suggestions.

Right now I am just making the effort to go for as many 30-45 min walks as possible and incorporate an interval run into my week (run 1 min, walk till HR comes down, repeat).

Is this a reasonable protocol? Should I switch to a more intensive KB program to challenge my aerobic capacity more? I await the forum's wisdom.
Click to expand...
What is your HR whilst doing AXE?

Doing so called Z2 LED work is a tried and true strategy. The thing is however that you need to be patient with it. I’m talking months, (into years) and the sessions need to get to be relatively long as well. Start out slow, take your time.

This does not mean however that you can’t challenge your aerobic/anaerobic system also. Doing appropriate amounts of Z3-Z5 is required as well.
 
Stoneface77 said:
Right now I am just making the effort to go for as many 30-45 min walks as possible and incorporate an interval run into my week (run 1 min, walk till HR comes down, repeat).

Is this a reasonable protocol?
Click to expand...
overall, this is ok to include, but in my view, @John K asks the right questions. if you've got a test day, you've got to design your training around it.
Stoneface77 said:
Should I switch to a more intensive KB program to challenge my aerobic capacity more?
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I would say, no, not given the nature of your concern being a 1.5 run.

get your speed up, and get your gait efficient and healthy.

I've got a bum ankle which the army saw fit to grant me a permanent profile for the 2.5 mi. walk. (~30 minutes)

However - in long-time exposure events - I saw the same basics being recommended and practiced.

- get your overall speed up via sprint work.
- get your overall capacity up by putting in easy miles below your threshold speed. (getting used to a 2 mile run, for a 1.5 mile test was something I saw regularly. a lot of army guys habitually ran 3 miles at an easy pace to get ready for a 2-mile test day)
- periodically run a self-test day, to check up on progress. you've got a test day out there waiting for you. make sure you're on track for at least 10% better than you need to be. See how long you can keep the pace you're striving for, and use that to inform your training.

the specifics of which (or any correction to the above) I'll have to leave for my betters to recommend.
I was always frustrated and dependent on my betters for help with working on this endurance event stuff more specifically; for the whole 20 years, I had to do it about 2x a year.
 
Adachi said:
get your overall speed up via sprint work.
- get your overall capacity up by putting in easy miles below your threshold speed.
- periodically run a self-test day, to check up on progress. you've got a test day out there waiting for you. make sure you're on track for at least 10% better than you need to be. See how long you can keep the pace you're striving for, and use that to inform your training.
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This^
 
You would be surprised how much steady Zone 2 work can improve your overall speed. Last year I did 8 weeks of steady Zone 2 work (only breathing through the nose to keep my HR in the ideal range). I did a 6 mile run as a test before and after, same trail so no differences. The pre-test was done in 1:10:45. The 6 mile run at the end was done in 0:58:54. It made me a believer.
 
It's very easy to start "majoring in the minors" and wanting things to be perfect all the time. My advice, if you have a run time to meet coming up, that's the priority. Put all your attention into that- especially if the PT test is coming up soon. Run, even if it's higher than Z2. Looks like you need to run a 9:40 mile for that 1.5 miles. I'd run 3 miles 3x per week, starting at the 9:40 pace for as long as you can maintain, then finish. The goal would be to maintain it for the 14:30. Once you feel like you can pass the test, then you can go back and start working on the Z2 cardio.

Once you can pass the run, then play with designing your training protocol to incorporate all your goals. I'm a big proponent of Justin's OG Novocaine protocol, especially for us LEOs. It seems to have literally built for this situation. You could still get the KB work in, and add in the Z2 cardio when the protocol dictates. For you, I'd run the optional speed sprint work to maintain your running fitness.

All-Around Training for the Tactical Athlete | StrongFirst

Just my opinion. Good luck on the PT test and the new unit!
 
Thank you all for the advice and feedback . . .

@BJJGator - I have read the "Novocaine" plan a bunch of times since it came out and once I get up to standard on my PFT I definitely think I will transition to running that long-term.

@John K - That first article was super helpful in clarifying for me the idea of training "easy" most of the time to build your athletic base and then using a "sledgehammer" now and then to push your performance (kind of analogous to training anti-glycolitic most of the time with an occasional lactic bath . . . hmmm . . .). The exact opposite of how I originally built running skills in the academy lo these many years ago, which was "all sledgehammer all the time." Of course I was quite motivated to keep my job, so . . .it worked I guess. Painful though and this 46 yr old body can't sustain that anymore. Anyway, thanks for the resource.

I like the idea of sprints to build speed and will incorporate those. Now that I think of it, I did something similar when I was in the academy and struggling to keep up with the runs.

Got some clarification and it looks like I have until October before I have to pass the PFT so I have the time to build up slowly. We'll see how it goes.
 
Adachi said:
overall, this is ok to include, but in my view, @John K asks the right questions. if you've got a test day, you've got to design your training around it.

I would say, no, not given the nature of your concern being a 1.5 run.

get your speed up, and get your gait efficient and healthy.

I've got a bum ankle which the army saw fit to grant me a permanent profile for the 2.5 mi. walk. (~30 minutes)

However - in long-time exposure events - I saw the same basics being recommended and practiced.

- get your overall speed up via sprint work.
- get your overall capacity up by putting in easy miles below your threshold speed. (getting used to a 2 mile run, for a 1.5 mile test was something I saw regularly. a lot of army guys habitually ran 3 miles at an easy pace to get ready for a 2-mile test day)
- periodically run a self-test day, to check up on progress. you've got a test day out there waiting for you. make sure you're on track for at least 10% better than you need to be. See how long you can keep the pace you're striving for, and use that to inform your training.

the specifics of which (or any correction to the above) I'll have to leave for my betters to recommend.
I was always frustrated and dependent on my betters for help with working on this endurance event stuff more specifically; for the whole 20 years, I had to do it about 2x a year.
Click to expand...
Does it mean that you are being tested on walking 2.5 miles in 30 minutes? First time I am hearing any standards on “walking” and I like that. Do you work up to it? If yes how do you do that?
 
Stoneface77 said:
kind of analogous to training anti-glycolitic most of the time with an occasional lactic bath . . . hmmm . . .
Click to expand...
The guy who wrote that, Al Ciampa, pioneered a lot of the A&A work.

Anyways, best of luck.
 
Ege said:
Does it mean that you are being tested on walking 2.5 miles in 30 minutes? First time I am hearing any standards on “walking” and I like that. Do you work up to it? If yes how do you do that?
Click to expand...
Yes the army has walking as an alternate event to the 2 mile run. I was granted a profile based on an ankle injury. I was tested on walking 2.5 miles. The cutoff times vary by age bracket. Fastest time I ever posted was ~30:30.

I did have to practice walking this quickly. (I am recently retired from service. ) Many of the same rules apply. Practice walking sprints, often between Street light poles. Practice walking 3 miles regularly to help make the 2.5 mile distance seem easier. Carry a ruck sometimes for added resistance.

I will never forget the shock, the first time, I thought the walk would be easier. Not exactly. I came across the finish line drenched in sweat huffing and puffing, and laid down to recover.
 
Adachi said:
Yes the army has walking as an alternate event to the 2 mile run. I was granted a profile based on an ankle injury. I was tested on walking 2.5 miles. The cutoff times vary by age bracket. Fastest time I ever posted was ~30:30.

I did have to practice walking this quickly. (I am recently retired from service. ) Many of the same rules apply. Practice walking sprints, often between Street light poles. Practice walking 3 miles regularly to help make the 2.5 mile distance seem easier. Carry a ruck sometimes for added resistance.

I will never forget the shock, the first time, I thought the walk would be easier. Not exactly. I came across the finish line drenched in sweat huffing and puffing, and laid down to recover.
Click to expand...
Yeah I don't see how 2.5 miles in 30 minutes is "easier" than a run. 2 miles in 15:00 ... ok fine. 2.5 in 30? Crazy man. Just let me run.

Or give me the erg alternate event. That's much easier.
 
John K said:
Yeah I don't see how 2.5 miles in 30 minutes is "easier" than a run. 2 miles in 15:00 ... ok fine. 2.5 in 30? Crazy man. Just let me run.

Or give me the erg alternate event. That's much easier.
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My last couple PT tests I got to do the erg alternate due to the apft 2.0 roll out.

I also found 5k in 25:00 to be annoyingly difficult. My time was 24:00 Flat.
 
John K said:
Yeah I don't see how 2.5 miles in 30 minutes is "easier" than a run. 2 miles in 15:00 ... ok fine. 2.5 in 30? Crazy man. Just let me run.

Or give me the erg alternate event. That's much easier.
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I was in the army as well and we had a guy on my 1st deployment get blown up & had a chunk of shrapnel go through his leg... Long story short he had to do the walk for his PT test and he swore it was the hardest thing he's ever done PT wise lol (I was in an airborne unit, so he wasn't a slouch either)
 
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