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Bodyweight Help with doing first push-up

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ajaan

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Can anyone help me with a routine to do push-ups?

My current routine is:

(Using the bar on the Smith Machine) Incline push-ups 5x5, building to 10x5, then lowering the bar, and back to 5x5
Assisted pull-up: roughly 5x6
Double KB clean into Double Press 4x6
Plank 3 x 1 min

Then, swings 10 - 12 reps OTM for 15 mins (I use the 32kg or 40 kg for this)

I do this three times a week. On my fourth day I do a 10 km or so run.

Here's the thing. I've been doing it for 8 months. I can't do a single floor push-up. As you can see my swing is progressing nicely. But, I have zero strength in push-ups (or bench press). Eight months on and the incline bar is still about 22 inches off the floor (I've come down / progressed three 'levels' on the bar), and I've plateaued. I'm happy to be patient and continue, but I'm not making progress anymore.

I'm a 40-year-old man, 6'3", 230 lbs, with a maintained 70 lbs weight loss, and still losing.

Can anyone get me doing push-ups?

Thank you,
 
Can you post a vid of you swinging a 40kg? Not that I don't believe you, I just want to see the form. I can't wrap my head around someone swinging that 100+ times but not being able to do a single pushup.
 
Thank you for your reply. I understand your scepticism, and yes it is a little weird. I used to play Division 1 basketball, and even then with elite levels of fitness, and 5-6% body fat, push-ups were almost impossible.

For reasons of privacy I'd prefer not to post a video.

However, I have two SFG instructors who teach me one-to-one in two different countries, including one who is a close personal friend. I had so many lessons, input and checks on the swing from them, as it's my preferred exercise. Therefore, you'll have to take my word (and theirs) that my form is good and snappy. I didn't learn from YouTube, I had a lot of intensive training, and continue to do so.

My goto is the 32kg. But I add in sets of the 40 kgs.

However, while both of them teach bodyweight, and helped to develop to the program listed, neither specialise in bodyweight, and I'd like some input from bodyweight specialists.

Cheers.
 
I fully understand. I say get to the lowest level of the bar you can and start adding resistance with a weighted vest and/or a band. Keep the 5x5. Do that for a while then try to do one on the floor. Once you can do one you're golden, you can work up to 2 then 3 and so on.

You said you played basketball, do you have extremely long arms?
 
Thank you.

The problem is I'm still on the third rung above the floor, and have been for around two / three months now. I've plateaued. I can't move the bar down and maintain form. I could perhaps knock out 2 reps at the next level down, but start to twist, losing my engaged/braced/plank position.

If I can build up to 2 or 3 reps on the next rung down, would you suggest I could progress with such low reps for the push-up?
 
Any amount of reps you can do closer to the floor are better than others higher up, in my opinion.

Maybe you can scrap the pushups for a while and use the smith machine to do floor presses to build some chest/tri strength. Those were one of my favorite exercises when I went to a commercial gym.

I wish I could be of more help but I'm not a coach. However I'm very interested in this problem and I will be following along.
 
Definitely not a "bodyweight specialist" here, but I was fortunate to attend Chief SFB Karen Smith's one-day Bodyweight course last year, and we spent 4 hours on the push-up. So, you are right in thinking that there might be a few tips to pick up on! I highly recommend the SF Bodyweight course, if you can possibly attend one. The carryover to real life, in addition to kettlebell and other strength skills, is just incredible.

Maybe it would help if you can describe exactly what part of your body is unable to complete the full floor push-up. Where do you feel a weakness the most?

Corkscrewing the hands into the floor with an outward turn is one of my favorite tips. And where are your shoulders, as you do your incline push-up? Do your shoulders stay down, pulled towards your hips, fully packed and engaged in the sockets throughout the movement? Most people's shoulders tend to come up as their body comes down. I am still working on this. (I am not sure that will help you do it better to start with, but it will help to do it right, and stronger, in the long run).

Are your arms out to the side, or are your elbows coming back as with a tricep push-up? (Elbows back is better. Again, may not help to start, but stronger in the long-run). Hands under shoulders so that shoulders and hands are close together at the bottom of the push-up.

If you assume the starting position of the push-up on the floor, can you easily raise one hand, and then the other (for example, off the floor and to the same-side outer thigh) without a lot of body movement? If not, it may be full-body tension that is missing.

Just some ideas... hope that helps. One more from my own experience... the way I got to my first real push-up (before I learned all the 4-hours worth of tips ;) was doing yoga sun salutations daily. A nice repetiitve movement with recovery between each effort.
 
+1 what Anna said. The pushup in essence, should be seen as a moving hardstyle plank. The pushup is not an upper body exercise. It is a full body exercise. Starting position, hands under shoulders, as Anna said, take Breth into your belly, then Pull up your knee caps, cramp the glutes as hard as possible, try to "jacknife" at your hips to contract your abdomen really hard. Your body is one rock solid Planck then. Corkscrew, like Anna expained, try to pull your elbows while descending into your body, you actively pull yourself down with the lats (your upper arms are really chafing against tensed lats then). Your nose touches the floor, and you explode up while you power breathing out making the tsss- hissing sound.

There can be quite some hints and cues considered when practicing. Try these things on your incline (grab the bar really hard). Your body is one tight clenched Planck or fist. Tense everything up really hard. First do one rep at a time. Get up, shake out, think about the cues while having a short break, repeat. Later you do two reps up to five. Make every rep a high tension rep. Low reps with enough rest for a few reps build strength. You will get the hang on it, and I think you will be on the floor maybe sooner than later.

And what Kernlittle said it seems to be a bit weird, being able hardstyle swinging 40k and not....But everyone is different, and that is good. When working with an SFG you should be familiar with the plank, my assumption is, that you may be focused to much on your arms, and considering you are a larger human, you maybe sack a little bit down in your back, which is a leakage of energy and tension.

Get your setup right in the beginning of each rep, remember the cues and practice, maybe at home, between two chairs or at a table. You will get it.
 
@Harald Motz

Thank you for the input.

As with the swing, I was taught the incline push-up by my SFG instructor. Over the sessions, the emphasis was on hardstyle planking and tension, such that my butt and and hips don't sag. I keep everything tensed as I'm doing my push-ups.

We also do hardstyle floor planks, which are part of my routine, including the one when you put your tongue on the roof of your mouth, hiss out, while trying to press everything through the floor for ten seconds or so.

Also, when doing floor planks the SFG instructor has us in partners. One partner kicks the other in the ribs, stomach, hips, thighs etc while he is planking, such that you automatically tense up.

I can't say I'm perfect, but I am actively, consciously aware that I'm tensing, bracing, engaging, while doing the push-ups. But I will ensure I make sure I focus more on it.
 
Anna C said:
Definitely not a "bodyweight specialist" here, but I was fortunate to attend Chief SFB Karen Smith's one-day Bodyweight course last year, and we spent 4 hours on the push-up. So, you are right in thinking that there might be a few tips to pick up on!

Maybe it would help if you can describe exactly what part of your body is unable to complete the full floor push-up. Where do you feel a weakness the most?

Corkscrewing the hands into the floor with an outward turn is one of my favorite tips. And where are your shoulders, as you do your incline push-up? Do your shoulders stay down, pulled towards your hips, fully packed and engaged in the sockets throughout the movement? Most people's shoulders tend to come up as their body comes down. I am still working on this. (I am not sure that will help you do it better to start with, but it will help to do it right, and stronger, in the long run).

Are your arms out to the side, or are your elbows coming back as with a tricep push-up? (Elbows back is better. Again, may not help to start, but stronger in the long-run). Hands under shoulders so that shoulders and hands are close together at the bottom of the push-up.

If you assume the starting position of the push-up on the floor, can you easily raise one hand, and then the other (for example, off the floor and to the same-side outer thigh) without a lot of body movement? If not, it may be full-body tension that is missing.

Just some ideas... hope that helps. One more from my own experience... the way I got to my first real push-up (before I learned all the 4-hours worth of tips ;) was doing yoga sun salutations daily. A nice repetiitve movement with recovery between each effort.
Click to expand...

@Anna C

Thank you for the detailed reply:

I feel the weakness in my chest, especially upper chest, in a line just below the collarbone. This part of my body shakes. Wrists are also weak.

Good point about the shoulders. I'm not sure. I don't think I pull them towards the hips. I will consider this at my next session.

With my arms they are neither out to the side, not back, rather in between, as in perhaps angled 30 degrees from my body. This is position I was taught.

With regards to assuming the starting position of the push-up and lifting the hand off the floor. I can do this and have been practicing it (one of the female SFGs on the web mentioned it). I've been assuming the start position of the push-up on the floor, raising one hand, bringing it across to the opposite shoulder, touching, holding for three seconds, then returning, and repeating with the other arm. This isn't much of a challenge.

I'll look into a SFG bodyweight course in my country, though I'm not sure we have anyone qualified yet.

Thanks
 
@ajaan : This is the end of my scope. A thing, I could imagine, that you have maybe some restrictions, regarding mobility, especially the t-spine. What is your job (maybe sitting office job?), how is your posture in general? Do you have an assessment on this? Maybe your pecs are tight? I don't know. Would be interesting to hear some knowledgeable on this @Brett Jones if there is an issue at all.
 
@Harald Motz

Thank you all the same. Upon reflection, I think I do need to make sure my legs are more tensed by pulling up from the kneecaps.

I'm an academic so do sit down a lot. I try to counter this by standing and walking around often (every 25 mins), and working at a standing desk for several hours.

I also do Original Strength resets, plus chi-Gung, and a Taoist exercise called the rag doll that loosens the spine. A few times a week I do TRX holds on a row (with the body planked), which has done wonders for bringing my shoulders back and chest out.
 
@ajaan : it sounds, you do quite a few things for your posture. Which is good, considering your job. The problem via the net (through texting) is, it is not that easy, to get a "picture" of a human literally. Everyone has a body, a built, a posture, a history which led to a current state. A very vague picture of you I imagine: 40 year old male, on weight loss, started serious exercising again maybe eight months ago (the time you are stucking at your push ups), sedentary (regarding body) job.... But nevertheless, working on mobility, especially t-spine can be very helpfull. When you work with an SFG he, or she could teach you a thing or two about that. But this are my assumptions, by the way.
 
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ajaan, lots of good advice from Harald here, and good information provided from you in return. And, congratulations on your weight loss! At 230 lb you are still pushing a lot of weight in the push-up, so consider that as a factor. But I understand you feel stalled in your progress and would like to get the push-up. Sounds like your plank and full-body tension techniques are all very good. And your arm position is probably fine; my impression is that the 30 degrees out positon is not wrong; it's just not optimum for developing maximum strength that eventually leads to the one-arm push-up (OAPU) where the arm must be close to the body in order to get it. So anyway, other than the packed shoulder which you're going to check on, I, too, am at the end of my scope... the only other thing that occurs to me is doing a static hold at your sticking point. For example, a slow controlled descent and hold yourself just off the floor (or wherever the most difficult part is) for a few seconds for each rep. This could be done by working the descent only on the floor, or with your incline position working both directions. We were taught this in the bodyweight course. I have been using it with the top of my pull-up, and it does seem to be helping.
 
I'm not FMS certified, but a pushup is one of the basic human movements tested, not even as a strength standard, but as a normal, functional movement. The issue here might not be a matter of "training" the pushup, but it could be that there is something else going on. See an FMS specialist would be my advice. Don't put strength on dysfunction.

You never know, you could even be pumping out reps after an hour session with an FMS specialist. It wouldn't be a surprise to me, because I've experienced the often magical results of the right corrective even just done for one set from an FMS.
 
Apart from all the advice given, another approach as you gradually lower the incline as you get stronger, lots of Original Strength resets will also do wonders
 
@ajaan, you work with 2 SFGs, you can swing a 40kg in good form, and you can't do a push-up? Since you've declined to post a video, then there's nothing more we can do except to say get an FMS and fix what's wrong. IMHO, that, and nothing else, should be your focus. Have a thorough physical exam, too.

This is not about exercise progressions; you have not provided yourself or us with sufficient information to say more. Based on what I've read here, I suggest you stop swings and every other form of exercise (except perhaps walking) until you get to the bottom of this. Something's not right here.

-S-
 
Thank you for all the replies.

@Steve Freides

Thank you for the input. While I haven't had an FMS, I did have six sessions with a physiotherapist who was unable to find anything wrong in the area. In addition, one of SFGs is qualified in Primal Move, the other is qualified in Original Strength. One of my friends is an orthopedic MD who has also examined me at length. Finally, outside of SFG, because of my job, I have access to and use NHL strength and conditioning coaches, plus numerous MDs and NDs with an interest in sports medicine.

There isn't a physical problem so far as those people can see, and they do have sufficient information -- although it could be a strength problem. The only two things that have been posited are: low testosterone and also lack of neuro-muscular connection in that area.

Regarding stopping exercise. I'm happy to tailor it down (to ensure adequate recovery) if anyone thinks I'm doing too much. But seeing as I've lost 70 lbs, and more importantly, put an often fatal autoimmune disease into remission, stopping exercise isn't an option, unless any of the experts I've consulted think there is an injury.

What I hoped for is what some of the posters suggested, is any other drills that would supplement or aid the push-up, or help with the neuro-muscular connection, in much the same way as TRX holds have helped fire muscles and make that connection for push-ups.

I understand the scepticism about being able to swing 40 kgs and not do a push-up: one of my SFGs still can't get his head around it, the other is much more experienced and isn't that surprised. However, seeing as this is about push-ups, I really have no incentive to make it up. Just to make it slightly wilder for you: in the presence of my SFG instructor I've done sets of ten with the 48kgs, and think within six months will be comfortably beyond this, should I choose (I don't).
 
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