HICT or A+A?

Nate

Level 5 Valued Member
New posting about training 2 energy systems but avoiding glycolytic..... I feel I've heard that somewhere before.

 

kennycro@@aol.com

Level 6 Valued Member
New posting about training 2 energy systems but avoiding glycolytic..... I feel I've heard that somewhere before.
Rebranding

I read this earlier.

It nothing more than rebranding a method or product that been around for a while with a new name and promoting it.

Cluster Set Training

HICT is just another version of Cluster Set Training, as is various of types of High Intensity Training.

Phosphagen Energy System


As with most Cluster Set Training Protocols, the number or repetition is kept fairly low. Repetition are performed in around 15 seconds ore less; definitely less than 30 seconds.

Cluster of repetition with in Set are performed.

Doing so, ensure the Phosphagen Energy System is primarily used.

Hypertrophy Cluster Set Training Protocol

As I have noted in other post, research by Dr Jonathan Oliver determined this protocol ensure athletes were able to increase muscle mass while increasing Power and Speed, as well as Maximum Strength to some degree.

Traditional/Hypertrophy Bodybuilding falls more into the Glycolytic Energy System.

Traditional Bodybuilding increases muscle mass at the expense of a decrease of Power, Speed and Maximum Strength.

Custer Set Training Paradox

Oliver Cluster Set Protocol ensured that Hypertrophy, Power, Speed and Maximum were increased.

Ketogenic Diet Cluster Set Hypertrophy Training

As I've noted in previous post, Oliver Cluster Set Hypertrophy Training is effective for individual on a Ketogenic Diet.

The Phosphagen Energy System primary energy source is ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate).

That means that individuals on a Ketogenic Diet or a Standard American High Carbohydrate Diet will perform equally as well in the Phosphagen Energy System.

With that said, there are some stipulations that need to be applied in a well written and applied Ketogenic Diet Cluster Set Hypertrophy Training Program to elicit that greatest training effect.
 

superendurance

Level 1 Valued Member
So the term HICT was coined by Joel Jamieson, who published his book "Ultimate MMA Conditioning" in 2009. Here is a quote from the book I found online:

"Your goal in training should be to maximize how much power your alactic system can produce while subsequently improving how fast the aerobic system can refuel for repeated use."

According to "The Quick and the Dead", Verkhoshansky developed his idea of anti-glycolytic training in the 1980s. There isn't much new under the sun when it comes to training - I think it's entirely possible some wrestling coach in ancient Greece had his athletes do something similar.
 

North Coast Miller

Level 7 Valued Member
I have to point out that the short rest times used in HICT and Cluster Sets are not going to be enough to clear lactate or raise lowering Ph levels as you get deeper into your session. They are long enough for glycolysis to clear out accumulating inorganic phosphate and glycolytic and lipid metabolism to aerobically restore some PCr.

The primary benefit of this is you stave off fatigue, allowing one to perform more reps with heavier load at higher movement velocity. You can do some very easy trial and error by comparing number of reps in a straight set to ones done with varying amounts of rest while keeping one eye on your rep speed. I think failing to use the fastest possible controlled lifting cadence will seriously reduce the effectiveness of these approaches, at least it definitely did in my case.

The typical break of 20-30 seconds is enough to allow several repeats with 1/2 to 2/3 of your repmax at a given weight, leading to as many as 2x (or more) the number of total reps in a single Cluster compared to a straight set, before fatigue forces one to reduce reps per repeat or terminate the Set.

I don't think this is really A&A which requires a more complete recovery between bouts, and I'd be mighty surprised if anyone not in ketosis wasn't using plenty of their glycolytic system to power this effort. Even then, that inorganic phosphate from the alactic pathway won't clear very quickly without help. The beauty of this approach is it generates metabolic stress associated with higher volume without the less effective use of slower rep speed and/or lighter weights. At least that's my take.
 

silveraw

Level 6 Valued Member
So the term HICT was coined by Joel Jamieson, who published his book "Ultimate MMA Conditioning" in 2009.
Joel's work inspired a ton of really cool endurance stuff to a whole new generation of people.
His work is a big part of the basis of Tactical Barbell II: Conditioning. Which if you read it is kind of like the big "do this stuff" book for programming your own AGT training. I know the first time I read through Q&D I kept thinking "I've done this protocol with hill sprints before!"
 

kiwipete

Level 6 Valued Member
So the term HICT was coined by Joel Jamieson, who published his book "Ultimate MMA Conditioning" in 2009. Here is a quote from the book I found online:

"Your goal in training should be to maximize how much power your alactic system can produce while subsequently improving how fast the aerobic system can refuel for repeated use."

According to "The Quick and the Dead", Verkhoshansky developed his idea of anti-glycolytic training in the 1980s. There isn't much new under the sun when it comes to training - I think it's entirely possible some wrestling coach in ancient Greece had his athletes do something similar.
Great to be reminded of it though!

Seems like it could be a nice variation on easy strength - maybe 5min of pressing, then pulling, hinging, squatting etc
 

Pasibrzuch

Level 5 Valued Member
Maybe splitting hair a little bit, but Isee a slight difference between HICT, A+A and Cluster Training.

HICT - the break is short than in a cluster, maybe 3-5 seconds. Staying in your 150-160bpms with slight ups and downs on your HR graph. Not totally depleting the PhC system, also not recovering entirely. The resistance you choose is lighter than in cluster training, but still grindy (sled pull/push, assault bike, weighted step-ups, etc.)Goal: conditioning

A+A - the break is longer, the point is to deplete the PhC system totally and then recover, so you are ready to every set is performed with full power. Heart rate graph: sharply up, down to ~the same heart rate over and over again. Exercise choice: ballistics. Goal: conditioning.

Cluster training - Heavy weights. Performed as in the original post. Heart-rate: not relevant. Goal: strength.

This is at least how I - a layperson - perceive it and find useful in my endeavors. If anybody sees any flaw or misinformation in this categorization, I'm looking forward to a critique.
 
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kennycro@@aol.com

Level 6 Valued Member
HICT - the break is short than in a cluster, maybe 3-5 seconds.

Not based on the information in the article...

HICT

This is what it should look like (using kettlebell swings as an example):
  • Set One: 5 kettlebell swings
  • Rest: 15-20 seconds
  • Set Two: 5 kettlebell swings
  • Rest: 15-20 seconds
  • Set Three: 5 kettlebell swings
  • Rest: 15-20 seconds
Not totally depleting the PhC system, also not recovering entirely.

ATP Depletion

The intensity of the movement is one of the underlying factors in how much ATP is depleted.

ATP Restoration (Recovery)

1) 50% ATP Restoration

Research shows that approximately 50% of ATP Restoration occurs with around 30 seconds or rest.

2) Approximately 80% ATP Restoration (Recovery)

Research (Dr Gregg Haff) determined that approximately 80% of ATP is restored with around 45 seconds of rest.

A+A - the break is longer, the point is to deplete the PhC system totally and then recover, so you are ready to every set is performed with full power.

Training Objective

The training objective determines the amount of time between sets or repetition in Cluster Sets.

As you noted, to ensure "every set is performed with full power", complete recovery is required; 3 minute and longer between sets.

Cluster training - Heavy weights. ... Heart-rate: not relevant. Goal: strength.

Good Point

Heart Rate doesn't come into play with Maximum Strength Cluster Sets.
 

superendurance

Level 1 Valued Member
Some interesting points were made. Adaptations are going to be different depending on the duration of rest, so there is a definite difference between the protocol described in the article and A&A. In my understanding, at its core A&A is alactic anaerobic power training. The prescription is for near complete rest - hence the sets being called "repeats".

Coincidentally, I just started reading the book "Training for the Uphill Athlete" today and found the following paragraph in the section on anaerobic interval training:
"Training to increase anaerobic capacity uses the same basic format as an aerobic interval session: go hard, rest, repeat. But in this case you will take a longer recovery between repetitions. The distinction from aerobic interval training is that these exercises are not meant to train endurance, so it is important that the anaerobic system is fully (or very nearly) restored so that each repetition can be executed at the same maximum intensity. This requires very short work periods of eight to fifteen seconds, separated by long recovery times of at least one to two minutes if the intensity of the reps is in the correct intensity range."
(What's called a "rep" here would be a "repeat" in A&A)

As a side note I want to mention that while clusters are most often used as a pure strength building method, they can be used in anti-glycolytic training as well, as in Seluyanov's 10x10 method.

I know this was all over the place, and I don't really know where I'm going with this. In my mind, which method is "best" is wholly dependent on the individual and their goal.

Each chooses for himself...
 

kennycro@@aol.com

Level 6 Valued Member
while clusters are most often used as a pure strength building method, they can be used in anti-glycolytic training as well, as in Seluyanov's 10x10 method.
Glycolytic 10 X 10 Sets

Set of 10 Repetition fall into Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding Training.

Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding Training falls more into Glycolytic/Endurance Training, rather that the Phosphagen Energy System.

Rest Periods Between Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding Sets

Dr. Schoenfeld and colleagues found that taking 3 minutes of rest vs. 1 minute of rest between working sets of squats and bench press led to greater increases in both muscular strength and hypertrophy. "The Case for Resting Longer and Lifting Heavier

With that said, Maximum Strength occurs when heavier load in the 85% plus of 1 Repetition Max are performed.

A lower training percentage is used with Repetition of 10 Repetition per Set; approximately 60 - 80% of a 1 Repetition Max is employed with Repetition of 10 per Set.

From 0 to 100; Know Your Percentages

This article provides some good general guidelines on this.
 
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superendurance

Level 1 Valued Member
Glycolytic 10 X 10 Sets

Set of 10 Repetition fall into Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding Training.

Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding Training falls more into Glycolytic/Endurance Training, rather that the Phosphagen Energy System.

Rest Periods Between Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding Sets

Dr. Schoenfeld and colleagues found that taking 3 minutes of rest vs. 1 minute of rest between working sets of squats and bench press led to greater increases in both muscular strength and hypertrophy. "The Case for Resting Longer and Lifting Heavier

With that said, Maximum Strength occurs when heavier load in the 85% plus of 1 Repetition Max are performed.

A lower training percentage is used with Repetition of 10 Repetition per Set; approximately 60 - 80% of a 1 Repetition Max is employed with Repetition of 10 per Set.

From 0 to 100; Know Your Percentages

This article provides some good general guidelines on this.

Seluyanov's 10x10 is different from German Volume Training. A short break is taken after each rep (hence me writing it's a form of cluster training) and ample rest between sets (usually alternating exercises). The whole thing is to prevent acidosis, it is advised to stop the training session at the onset of local muscular fatigue.
 

kennycro@@aol.com

Level 6 Valued Member
Seluyanov's 10x10 is different from German Volume Training.
I couldn't find anything on Seluyanov's 10x10. So, it did look like German Volume Training.

A short break is taken after each rep (hence me writing it's a form of cluster training)
A short beak would definitely make it Cluster Set Training.

Any pause between repetition in an exercise turns it into a Cluster Set.

Ironically, many individual perform Custer Set without realizing they are performing them.

Once the repetition in a set become hard, they take often a short pause; that turn it into a Cluster Set.
it is advised to stop the training session at the onset of local muscular fatigue.
That is rue with Power or Speed Cluster Set Training.

It is also imperative with Technique Training.

As I have posted, the issue with Powerlifters using the Competition Lifts as Training Exercise is with each repetition, Technique falls apart, as muscle fatigue set in.

Maximums Strength occurs at the expense of Technique.
 
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