Other/Mixed Horizontal Pulls > Vertical Pulls?

[watchnerd]

Pull-Ups are one of the best exercises for building a strong back. They develop your lats and are a great measure of strength.

But they are not the king of all back exercises. That title belongs to the Horizontal Pull.

According to Dr. John Rusin, a strength coach, physical therapist and creator of the Functional Hypertrophy Training program, athletes should prioritize horizontal pulling over vertical pulling to keep their shoulders healthy. Sore shoulders is a complaint that seems to bo becoming more common.

Dr. Rusin explains that athletes are “cursed by posture” because they tend to stare at their cellphone and sit for too long throughout the day. The resulting forward rounded posture and dysfunctional shoulder blades prevent athletes from using their shoulders effectively and can lead to soreness and pain.

Why Rowing Exercises Are Better Than Pull-Ups

Learn why you should do at least two horizontal row for every Pull-Up in a workout.

www.stack.com

 

[Boris Bachmann]

I don't know... Dr. Rusin is the guy that tried to "fix" Dave Tate.

<insert "why don't we have both?" GIF here>

 

[watchnerd]

I don't know... Dr. Rusin is the guy that tried to "fix" Dave Tate.

<insert "why don't we have both?" GIF here>

Well, he does say you should have both.

Although he says horizontal:vertical ratio should be 2:1

 

[Antti]

I'm not sure if the exact ratios are that important.

What I think I often see missing is heavier upper back pulling, like a shoulder extension and scapular retraction with the humerus at a straight angle.

Everything is always about the lats when it comes to the back. I often find it annoying.

 

[3letterslong]

I've always thought so. I've always benefited more from horizontal pulls than vertical pulls.

I now consider pull-ups to be vertical pulls for beginners, but as you get stronger you can start pulling the bar lower and lower on your torso until you're in front lever territory, which is basically the end of the journey for horizontal pulls.

 

[Matt_lux]

Very interesting topic, thanks for posting this.
I had very pleasant reasults when I spent some time on one-arm rowing instead of pull ups.
Shoulders felt better and my pull ups were through the roof.

 

[Simon L]

Do you think it’s possible to do good pull-ups without adequate horizontal pulling strength, specifically scapular control? A full range pull up requires a strong scapular retraction at the top, built from horizontal pulls.

 

[Joel the Savage]

Do you think it’s possible to do good pull-ups without adequate horizontal pulling strength, *text*...?

I don't understand this question/statement. Why would it matter...?

 

[Simon L]

I don't understand this question/statement. Why would it matter...?

Maybe I've explained it badly! Let me try again! In my experience, training the horizontal row - I used a suspension trainer - helped trained scapular retraction and depression that then carried over to being able to do a proper pull-up getting the chin over the bar. Before I focused on that I struggled to get into a good top position in the pull-up. I think this 'horizontal' strength can also be the limiting factor in getting higher, e.g. chest to bar pull ups.

I think this is where I got it from. Does that make more sense?

 

[Carl]

I feel better with both in the program at all times. My horizontal pull volume tends to be more than vertical but both have a place for me.

 

[Spartan Agoge]

IMO you need both. Barbell rows and pull-ups for example.

 

[North Coast Miller]

I'd guess to some extent it depends on your vocation etc. I pull stuff off the floor daily, I never pull myself up - training angles matter. If I were a lineman, tree climber, or had to do maintenance on poles or towers would be a different story.

Normally hit 12-15 clean neutral grip pullups training only horizontal pull.

 

[SUOMI-PUKU]

I'd guess to some extent it depends on your vocation etc. I pull stuff off the floor daily, I never pull myself up - training angles matter. If I were a lineman, tree climber, or had to do maintenance on poles or towers would be a different story.

Normally hit 12-15 clean neutral grip pullups training only horizontal pull.

Did you build your pull ups to that level doing only horizontal pulling or did you maintain that level by training them for however long then dropping them?

 

[the hansenator]

I’ve heard it argued that you needn’t bother with rows if you can do pull-ups but I think it’s not that simple.

I tend to do more rows simply because I don’t have a pull-up bar in the basement where I do most of my working out.

 

[Washed up Meathead.]

To me Both rows and pullups/chinups are important. I've trained both for nearly 25 years now but many times over the years I've went months doing only rows and for 1 year i never did a single horizontal back exercise, only pullups variations and when I did go back to rows I was stronger than ever.

IMO I believe many people get shoulder issues not from lack of rowing, it's from using too wide a grip, always using the same variation but above all because they don't train dead hang pullups. They never fully go down and they never fully let their scapular stretch. Doing too many partial ROM pullups can cause shoulder issues. Doing dead hang reps improves shoulder joint flexibility, increases rear delt recruitment and strengthens the muscles around the scapular.

 

[Boris Bachmann]

Well, he does say you should have both.

Although he says horizontal:vertical ratio should be 2:1

Well, you made me read the damn article. Do both. I don't know about a 2:1 ratio at all, but sure. Throw in some deadlifts or cleans, bent over laterals, band pull aparts, and pullovers and viola, you'll have decent back development!

 

[North Coast Miller]

Did you build your pull ups to that level doing only horizontal pulling or did you maintain that level by training them for however long then dropping them?

Only horizontal pulls. I've never consistently trained pull or chinups.

 

[watchnerd]

I spent some time on one-arm rowing instead of pull ups.
Shoulders felt better and my pull ups were through the roof.

I like the fact that a good 1 arm row has a lot of scapular protraction.

Much like a good push up.

 

[DocMike]

If you are strength training it is beneficial to do pullups on the leg days, adds decompression to the routine which is good for spine. Place pulls on the upper body day as a decompression for the shoulder.

If you are doing another routine just do every other workout pullup, pull, pullup, pull...

Never heard of the 2:1 ratio of pulls to pullups but have heard of the 2:1 ratio of back work to bench work. I'll have to read up on this

 

[Simon L]

I like the fact that a good 1 arm row has a lot of scapular protraction.

Much like a good push up.

I think this is the key point in regards to shoulders and keeping them healthy. There's plenty of bro science out there saying you should keep your shoulders down and back at all times creating shoulder impingement issues etc. Including movements that include scapular movement seems essential to me to maintain a good scapulohumeral rhythm as well as strong, mobile, healthy shoulders. I failed to adequately train protraction for a long time and it gave me issues, Running GN's Sore joint solution has definitely solved that!!