Kettlebell How many times a week?
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North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
By doing grinds run to +60 seconds/per set, three X.
From doing bootcamp type metcons or textbook HIIT, no more than 1X/week and often times no more than once or twice a month.
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
That amount cannot possibly be detrimental.
Dixon
Level 1 Valued Member
Thank you for your replies and time North Coast Miller.
In my very first post on here I talked about a routine I was then doing which consisted of swinging a 32kg kettlebell for approximately a minute and was advised that a better approach was to avoid glycolytic training and instead go for much shorter bursts for five to eight reps or so and add sets. I read some articles on here and elsewhere and they mostly pointed to avoiding using the glycolytic energy system entirely and leave these longer sets of a minute or more to be done infrequently.
The new protocol that I intend to follow has me doing KB swings for forty seconds ( twenty five reps ) followed after a suitable rest three sets of presses. The whole thing is repeated between three to five times with the KB swings being done every ten minutes so there is a lot of rest between them. I just thought that to enter into glycolytic training between nine and twelve times a week would not be as infrequent as I thought anti-glycolytic training set out.
In my very first post on here I talked about a routine I was then doing which consisted of swinging a 32kg kettlebell for approximately a minute and was advised that a better approach was to avoid glycolytic training and instead go for much shorter bursts for five to eight reps or so and add sets. I read some articles on here and elsewhere and they mostly pointed to avoiding using the glycolytic energy system entirely and leave these longer sets of a minute or more to be done infrequently.
The new protocol that I intend to follow has me doing KB swings for forty seconds ( twenty five reps ) followed after a suitable rest three sets of presses. The whole thing is repeated between three to five times with the KB swings being done every ten minutes so there is a lot of rest between them. I just thought that to enter into glycolytic training between nine and twelve times a week would not be as infrequent as I thought anti-glycolytic training set out.
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
If training to avoid glycolytic pathway you are probably running the sets too long, although giving yourself a lot of rest between would mitigate a lot of the issue. Another thought is that it isn't a forever program and in any event there isn't enough volume to cause any problems anyway.
The biggest issue with glycolytic system training is the tendency to use weights that are too light to induce good strength adaptations. You end up training the metabolic aspect and not the underlying musculature. You get used to the burn and not developing power or tension. It can also hamper total volume. Using a well thought out program should mitigate those factors.
On a personal note, factors like set duration and rep count cannot be evaluated absent the specific exercise IMHO. Some movements only develop a lot of tension in a very small part of the ROM, limiting them to a small number of reps or very short set duration by piling on the weight could expose one to injury, or you could wind up not overloading by using too little TUT for the weight. You want max tension with minimal metabolic fatigue, and that can look a little different depending. But yes, in general fewer reps, more sets, depending on your goals..
Adachi
Level 7 Valued Member
Zero.
And I've experienced more appreciable results from this experience than ever. I've been to gyms, taken classes bought DVDs, and desperately tried to self design something that works.
Turns out the conventional wisdom and advice was at worst a set of lies which helps to perpetuate the need for the fitness industry, and at best, it lacks a framework of information sufficiently applicable to me.
I wasted an incredible sum of money on fitness in very desperate attempts to not be separated from the army. This is the only thing for whatever magic reason that has gotten me feeling stronger across months, as opposed to feeling gradually more worn out over and over across a 17 year career pockmarked by trouble meeting standards; at just about every single calendar year.
And now, it seems I'll be in the clear for the remainder.
I believe that the basic phenomena at play is that my body clears acid and H+ ions more slowly than most. And as a result I've been beset with many set backs in pushing myself.
Whatever lower amounts if buffering or repair or evacuation of radical oxygen species, is going on in my body, the moderate training protocol has become my savior in fitness.
Moving closer to a+a and taking longer rests and doing cleaner sharper reps and movements seems to be approximately optimal for me.
As far as I can tell, the pushing into glycolytic territory is something that I don't see myself ever doing on purpose. Not, now, knowing what I know.
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I agree with everything in this post. Really good insight and descriptions.
I definitely thing there's something to this, too. It's highly individual... and it can change over time for any one individual, based on their current state of fitness and adaptations. It can even vary by day, with stress levels, recovery state, etc.
It varies for me, but I get most of my glycolytic training on bike rides. It's intermittent and random... a hard pull on a group ride, going up a hill, etc. Recovery between efforts. Even training that is glycolytic can be "AGT" by avoiding "deep and prolonged" glycolysis. That's what is taught at Strong Endurance.
The only time I purposely put glycolytic training in a program is preparing for a competitive event such as TSC snatch event, max reps in 5 minutes. But if it happens in life or in a less-structured aspect of training, I don't "sweat" it too much. The body can handle it.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Zero.
It maybe happens a little bit by accident when I'm doing longer loaded carries.
But glycolytic conditioning isn't very helpful for my sport (weightlifting).
Dixon
Level 1 Valued Member
What about body building? Do you think it could have some application there?
I think so, but with bodybuilding it's more about creating the localized burn; a pump, a level of fatigue in the target muscle group. That's how you get that specific muscle or muscle group to grow. When doing glycolytic training for the purpose of training energy systems we're talking about more of a full-body effort. That's why circuits are often used in CF metcons. Wall balls, then run, then kettlebell swings, etc... one after the other, as condensed as possible.
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
Yep, esp if using a lot of the currently popular volume based BB programs.
I always defer to Dr DeLorme when it comes to BB and non-specific strength training, as his approach not only predates all the other high intensity strategies but is well documented to boot. As a philosophy/guiding principle it is still tough to beat. On first glance it looks pretty glycolytic but on second glance not so much maybe. I put it in the "one hard set" or "last set to failure" camp, with the volume being put in up front. It can be enhanced with common set-extending methods.
Strategies like Myoreps, Rest/Pause, Clusters all have advantage of using heavier weight with more volume and rest than just a long single set to failure. But, they trigger similar metabolic and physical effects that are good for muscle growth. Namely blood occlusion in the muscle (pump), high levels of mechanical tension, and glucose depletion in the muscle.
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
It depends on the person and where they are with body comp. HIIT being probably the most demanding form of glycolytic training out there is considered a less catabolic (more muscle sparing) means of improving aerobic capacity. it won't do much for your half marathon endurance, but will notably shrink minimum recovery time between sets and burns a lot of bodyfat.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
I don't think bodybuilders do a lot of HIIT.
From the little I know, I thought their preferred cardio is walking and other LISS.
Plus, if you're a pro, you need to manage your juicing cycles, too.
But I'm getting dangerously out of my knowledge zone, as I'm not a bodybuilder...
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
This is way more sophisticated than 99% of what I've read on the bodybuilding forums.
Dixon
Level 1 Valued Member
It's funny but since discovering this site only a short while ago I have reviewed my training methodology totally. I came here being a fan of approaches requiring short rests and high intensity often seeking to increase the density of my training by reducing the rest periods over time. Now though I seem to be avoiding glycolytic training like the plague .
I realise that the goals of many here are mainly strength and fitness rather than body building per se and I share those aims but would still like to build a little muscle back onto my frame as well. What would you all think of the following method regards that aim?
Short burst of KB swings ten to fifteen seconds duration
Two minutes rest ( this might be too long I will have to see how it works out )
Military press 5 reps challenging but not to failure
Two minute rest
Repeat for five to ten runs.
It is similar to the routine that I have already posted on here that I saw on T-Nation but the KB swings are less glycolytic though more frequent.
.I realise that the goals of many here are mainly strength and fitness rather than body building per se and I share those aims but would still like to build a little muscle back onto my frame as well. What would you all think of the following method regards that aim?
Short burst of KB swings ten to fifteen seconds duration
Two minutes rest ( this might be too long I will have to see how it works out )
Military press 5 reps challenging but not to failure
Two minute rest
Repeat for five to ten runs.
It is similar to the routine that I have already posted on here that I saw on T-Nation but the KB swings are less glycolytic though more frequent.
That could support your aim, yes. But there are a lot of variables unaccounted for that could make this mis-aimed, such as less than ideal technique, ineffective weight selection, and inappropriate frequency. Following an established program or getting a coach's input can sometimes aim you better towards a goal.
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
This is a program from Craig Marker that will work better, is similar but with more detail on the why and when:
HIRT for Hypertrophy - Breaking Muscle
While working with Pavel Tsatsouline on endurance protocols (e.g., Hybrid Power Conditioning Program, StrongFirst for Crossfit, HIRT), we discovered some interesting side effects of some of the high-intensity repeat (HIRT) protocols. While working with Pavel Tsatsouline on endurance protocols...
breakingmuscle.com
I could recommend other approaches, but it would be built around push/pull/hinge/squat, with or without kettlebell as primary implement.
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