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Barbell How much is enough? (Age question)

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Rocco

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I've been a practioneer of Kettlebells and Pavel's PTTP since his time with the other company. ---- I thank him and this community once again. ---- Here is my question: How much is enough? ---- I'm 32 years old and I achieved Sinister (with MP), I have a 1RM of 525 on the DL, and I can DL 450 lbs for 5 reps PTTP style (stand up, deep breath, re-set, generate tension, lift, repeat).

I mention this above not bragging at all. But in life for a regular guy, is their a reason to do more? Most men work at a desk. We really only need enough strength to move some furniture; enough endurance to play with our kids and do house work. ---- I am asking this question because truth be told I am starting to feel those aches and pains of getting "older." ---- I know in life we shouldn't settle. But, how do we balance the aforementioned with continuous improvement? For a regular person (not athlete) is continuous improvement necessary at the expense of pain in the future. ----- Do we reach a point where it is all about maintenance?

I mentioned my number above for a reason. --- Sinister is obviously perfect. In my opinion if you can reach that and maintain it you are better than 99% on those younger and older than you based on all the modalities it trains. ---- The 450lb DL for 5 reps (PTTP style) to me is the Barbell equivalent of Sinister as mention in another thread. Why 450lbs x 5? Because the Strongfirst Lifter strength test only tests up to 450 lb for a single in DL. --- I said to myself if you do it 5 times, that's sinister to me!! Do I need to do more? Or, should I maintain this into the future?

Sorry for my rambling. Any thoughts?
 
My thoughts are.... (and people will think I'm a broken record here), that it all comes down to goals. What is any individual training for. For me strength should serve a purpose other than strength itself. I climb mountains, rock climb, and engage in some endurance activities. I want to be able to participate in those activities at a high of a level as I can for as long as I can.
So as long as I can train well enough to support those things I am happy. But the clock is running...
 
32 is not old, I am 53:). I think the answer to your question is different for everyone. I don't really have a desire at 53 to complete Sinister. I would be happy with Simple. I would also like to be able to accomplish Dan Johns Big Blue Club, and or Mens standards at either a 5 or 6, if a 5 o6 for all pretty strong, pretty balanced
Strength Standards…Sleepless in Seattle
 
Rocco said:
But in life for a regular guy, is their a reason to do more? Most men work at a desk. We really only need enough strength to move some furniture; enough endurance to play with our kids and do house work. ---- I am asking this question because truth be told I am starting to feel those aches and pains of getting "older." ---- I know in life we shouldn't settle. But, how do we balance the aforementioned with continuous improvement? For a regular person (not athlete) is continuous improvement necessary at the expense of pain in the future. ----- Do we reach a point where it is all about maintenance?
Click to expand...
That's funny. I was thinking about this today. Then I come home and see your post...
Honestly for someone like the one you describe in the part that i quoted, S&S with a 24Kg KB is enough.
When I started S&S I had to use a 16. I was able to do 100 1HS and 2-3 TGUs per side with the 24, but obviously I couldn't do it in the S&S time standard.
Despite not meeting the S&S standard with the 24 I didn't encounter anything in my life that I couldn't do. It doesn't matter if it was moving furniture, a pick up basketball/soccer match, repairing a bike/car, running to get to the bus in time, carrying my girlfriend, recreational bouldering/climbing, carrying groceries etc.
Basically anything that you encounter in a "normal" active life as someone who doesn't compete in a specific sport/event.
Yes, reaching Simple and going beyond that helped me do all those things a bit better, but again I could do all those things before and without bragging on a level that is above average.
So for average Joe (family father with a desk job), who only works out to live a painfree, healthy life I'd say meeting the S&S standards with a 24 is all he ever needs. Anything more than that is a bonus that will definitely help, but is not necessary.
 
Thank you Gentlmen for some of your replys. ---- And yes, I do realize that 32 is not old. I wrote my thread above thinking about what I can do now, and then thinking what my body might feel like 20 years from know; all within the context of being a regular guy. ---- That's what I think I am trying to say: Once we reach these certain goals: simple, sinister, certain DL weight should we then focus on maintaining what I call a high level for a "regular guy." ---- Is the continual push to move further beyond a certain level going to hurt us down the road??? ---- thanks again.
 
I admire you for thinking like you do at 32. I wish I would have. I was your basic High School Athlete, and stayed in OK shape till my mid 30's 185-200. By 40 I was 230, and now at 53 I am coming down from 272 all time high. I actually felt pretty good at 230, still young enough to manage without noticing to much. Then I would say in my late 40's my mobility and flexibility took a nose dive, of course I also went from working and moving a lot to a complete desk job. But it seems like it happened over night. So I am working to get back to average Joe.
 
@Rocco, your questions are good but, IMHO, you've limited your choices needlessly. Try some different things, things where you don't have any numbers from the past to live up to, or things you haven't done in a few years.

E.g., I deadlift twice a year at PL meets for a few years in a row, then I take a few years off. In the interim, I might chase a better kettlebell military press, or trying to finally get myself to be a "2" on the shoulder mobility test in the FMS, or a better front split. And I will tell you this - the things I've worked on since my last round of competition deadlifts have made me a better deadlifter, and I'm planning on setting a new lifetime PR in a few months - not that things always work out that way, but I'm not complaining, either.

You need to look at your training from the perspective of the Big Picture, not just your numbers on a few lifts. You can't stay at the top of your game forever, so let the numbers go, allow your maxes to fall, but go back after them from time to time. This the formula for staying strong for a lifetime.

-S-
 
It sounds like you're applying some common sense about where you're going and where you want to be. When I did powerlifting years ago, I read somewhere that I was adapted for Jupiter's gravity. First I thought that was a little cool, but then I started backing off. Now S&S and general activities keep me feeling good.
 
Thanks Steve! I appreciate your response. It's a real honor to hear from you. Your advice on other posts are just great.

Yes, I do understand your perspective. And, yes again, one should not limit themself and only focus on numbers. ----- Your approach to thinking also is very optimistic. Which is great. So thanks!

This being said, and besides your suggestion of trying new things, - is it better to push further in my lifts because father-time will "level it out" eventually? (Are you slightly saying that?)

One idea I had for myself was to maintain the 450 DL x 5 and add volume in a bear/hybrid template with the same weight. E.g. 450 DL for 5 reps, then 3 reps, then 2 reps, - however then keep repeating sets of 2 reps (5,3,2,2,2,2,2). --- Idk, just an idea as maintence/hypertrophy, but I am diverting from the point.
 
I would put your DL aside for a while. If you're going to keep at it, find a lifting cycle you like and follow it. I'm redoing a 3-month-ish cycle I did in the Fall, just with 10 lbs. more. Most of that cycle was easy, most of this cycle will be easy.

I don't think it's better to push in your lifts at all. Life is cyclic - embrace that, plan for a peak every now and then, but lay low most of the time. And find your own style, e.g., I am an every-day lifter, and DL 4-5 days a week. Look into Easy Strength - it's a great change of pace if you haven't done it before, and for me, it's a great way to lift almost all the time without burning out.

-S-
 
@Rocco Here is a suggestion, think of your training in terms of moving in and out of "seasons." If you were a professional baseball player your training may look like this:

Feb - March: High level of drills on skill work; Medium intensity on strength; Low level of sport play (Spring Training).

April - Sept: Medium level of skill work; Low level of strength work; High level of sport play.

Oct - Jan: Low level of skill work; High level of strength work; Near zero level of sport play.

You can apply this "seasonal" style of training to your macro annual program and experience the benefits of less pain and consistent results for a long time.

As far as "how much is enough?" Strength gains are not linear forever so eventually with enough experience you will reach a level appropriate for your current skill level, re-assess and go from there.
 
@Rocco

I understand why you would ask the question. I think that it is worth setting challenging goals, achieving them and then focussing on something else and then returning to previous goals. If you can DL 450 * 5 why don't you try something else like the SSST or the RTK clean and jerk standards and then return to DL and SnS? Or focus on different skills like learning the Bent Press or walking on your hands?

Steve Freides is right that you will naturally cycle in and out. I do think that there is a level that is "enough" and as far as DLs and SnS go I would take the view that you have got to that level. In your shoes I would aim for some different goals and after a while revert back to working up to your DL and Sinister levels again.
 
Hello,

@Rocco
this is highly individual. I think The right dose is the dose which permits you to at least maintain your abilities, but without any injury. Another vision can be "my training makes me better in what I do in my everyday life".

If you start feeling sore regularly, or injured (for example), it is time to slow down a little. It does not mean you have to stop training. It only means you have to adapt your training to new constraints.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
@Rocco , those are impressive numbers for anyone. I'm guessing I was about 54 when I started S&S and worked up to a kind of simple. That being that I never did both the movements under the time limit in the same workout. I had moved on to training under Al Ciampa and I wasn't doing just S&S. I've gone back to S&S a few times for a week or two as a filler between programs. Do I care, not one bit. Could I do simple, hell yes. Could I achieve sinister, most likely not. The 40K would be something to shoot for though.

Everyone is different. If you want to compete in either the TSC or as a powerlifter then numbers matter. Goals are good too, but make them the right goals. I know powerlifters who have their best numbers as they get older. But to put your PR on each lift at one meet is something all together different. I would venture to say few have done that.

It's tough to work on more than one thing at a time. So pick something you would like to achieve and go for it. I think "Beast Tamer" would be the obvious choice.

Having said that, if you don't have the time now, life has gotten into the way, or whatever, then yes you are strong enough. I've had the opportunity to reflect on much of this as I have healed from a pretty severe injury. First up, I didn't know or didn't want to believe how serious the injury was. Now I'm faced with the knowledge that I may never run again recreationally or possibly never walk without a limp. Pick up a copy of Run Strong. I've never read it, but I have read about it. I wish someone would have recommended the book to me. It may be time to say yes, I'm strong enough and now it's time to stay healthy and ensure the old pump station will get me to the century mark. Lift twice a week and work on aerobics three times per week. A guy recommended that to me and I couldn't understand him pushing the dishonor of aerobics. The more I questioned it the more he thought I was just being a dick. Maybe I was, but now I understand the reasoning. So yep, your strong enough.

EDIT: PS, if you go for beast tamer let me know and keep me updated. I would be interested in your progress.
 
Gentlemen... Thank you once again for your insights and advice. I humbly appreciate it. I just appreciate your time in reading my post.

You all have given me much to ponder. TSC or Beast Tamer do seem interesting. --- I will update you all on what I decide. --- I just thought the question was worth asking.

Here is another question: Is the "regular guy" better off being a jack of all trades (maintaining and practicing other qualities/goals) OR being a master of one or two lifts?? --- answer this in the context of a regular guy/desk employee maybe with family. ---- Some would say that PTTP would be enough.
 
Rocco said:
Gentlemen... Thank you once again for your insights and advice. I humbly appreciate it. I just appreciate your time in reading my post.

You all have given me much to ponder. TSC or Beast Tamer do seem interesting. --- I will update you all on what I decide. --- I just thought the question was worth asking.

Here is another question: Is the "regular guy" better off being a jack of all trades (maintaining and practicing other qualities/goals) OR being a master of one or two lifts?? --- answer this in the context of a regular guy/desk employee maybe with family. ---- Some would say that PTTP would be enough.
Click to expand...

Well, you're already not a regular guy. Anyone who completes sinister and deadlifts 525 is beyond regular. PTTP may be enough with an hour walk each day.
 
Your achievements are great. Your post resonated with me regarding aches and pains whilst performing well.

Lately my mindset has been to keep pushing the performance but my focus has been to find what's 'missing' - surely the achievements shouldn't have to come with negative consequences and if they do it's likely that we are either doing something wrong or not doing something which would maintain 'health'?
 
Hello,

@Glen
I think this is not possible to maintain a peak performance everytime, at least on the long term. It can be possible if you prepare a meet. Otherwise, I think we have to focus on a good 'average' in every physical component (strength, power, endurance, etc...). Sometimes, we can push to vary or to simply have fun.

Nonetheless, if one lacks something particular (for instance endurance), it can be good to add endurance training and then simply maintain.

For example, I had a shoulder pain for so long. Then, I slowly worked on this issue (strength and mobility training) and now I simply maintain.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
@pet' yes I waant quite meaning that. I always believe a peak can only be a peak if surrounded by two valleys.

I was more meaning getting to a certain age and stopping pushing on as the process by obtaining the peak is causing niggles. Maybe the long term goal should be to revisit the peak but review the process to ensure long term health is maintained - maybe the impossible dream
 
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