all posts post new thread

Old Forum I strongly urge you to implement breath timing...

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

Jeff

Level 5 Valued Member
So far, I haven't taken Pavel up on the recommendation to implement the nasal breathing and breath timing concepts into my practice of S&S.  In fact, I do just the opposite.  After each set of swings, I gulp air like my life depends on it.  Since Pavel recommends it, it makes sense for me to do it.  However, I think that I would have to, at least at first, reduce the overall intensity of my swing practice.  Since I am doing sets of 10, the only two ways I could do that is by either going to a smaller kettlebell, or taking longer rest periods between sets.  The goal would be to eventually increase the intensity while still implementing breath timing.  I would like to hear how some of you were able to transition from gulping air after sets of swings to nasal breathing utilizing the breath timing technique described in S&S.  Did you have to initially reduce exercise intensity at first?  After a period of adjustment, can a person increase the intensity back up?
 
Take longer rests, get the breathing patterns down and then gradually reduce the rests.

Lay the foundation right as it will have solid carryover to other programs and lifts down the road.
 
I think Mike is right on target. Breathing ladders has been one of the best things in training for me. It is very anti anxiety and its zen with a kettlebell.
 
What would be a good way to implement this?  So far, I have been setting a timer to go off at even intervals and beginning a set of swings when the timer goes off.  I could lengthen the intervals to give myself more time to recover and take long, slow nasal breaths.  I would need more time to recover at first as I learn to breath this way.  I might need to take a few gulps of air as needed.

 

Or, I could pick a predetermined number of breaths.  In the book, one breath for every two swings is suggested.  I have a feeling I would need a lot more breaths per swing than that.  If  I used that method, then I wouldn't use a timer since the predetermined number of breaths would indicate when to begin the next set of swings.

 

I would like to hear what some of you do, and if you had a hard time leaning to adjust.
 
I find the nasal breathing between sets is more a mental than a physical challenge for me.  When I focus on taking deep breaths through my nose between sets, I am getting all the air that I need, but my body still feels like I need to gulp air out of habit.  If I force myself to take the 5 deep breaths through my nose and start the swing breathing on the next set, I don't feel like I am out of breath anymore.  To me, this means that I was getting the air I needed to recover, even though I didn't feel like it.  I'm sure there will be a point that I don't feel that way anymore, but my body is just so used to gulping air after exerting myself that I'm sure that habit is well established.

Usually, on the 4th or 5th breath, I will have that one really deep breath that I sometimes get with a yawn.  It's hard to describe, but the kind of "cleansing breath" that you take and you feel like you reach the capacity of your lungs and really clear out all the air.
 
Jeffrey, the idea of maintaining the breathing pattern is that it IS a way of regulating intensity, so of course you will have to reduce your intensity at first.

You can adjust your reps per set and/or the length of your rest periods as necessary to maintain the breathing pattern. You can also start using the breathing pattern to regulate a few sets at the beginning of each session, and expand from there.

Breathing ladders are also a good way to practice this because you start each ladder with short sets. A single, double or triple shouldn't get you sucking wind right away. Drop back down to the bottom of the ladder BEFORE you are forced to break the breathing pattern (you can also do these using an ascending/descending pyramid). The key to adding on higher rungs is to slow down your breathing as much as you can. The longer you can extend each breath, the longer you have to recover.

Another great drill for this is the straw breathing described in the book. It really teaches you to relax, breathe diaphragmatically, and extend each breath.

 

 

 
 
I started with 10 slow breaths for 10 swings.  I was surprised how quickly I was able to reduce that to 5 breaths.  Put the timer away.  Set a number and stick to it. If you need more rest, breathe slower.  When you can easily do it with 5 breaths try timing it to see how close you are to the 5 minute mark.

When I do sets with my next heavier KB, I just try to recover enough to do the swings with perfect form.  Once it is my working weight with all sets, I will focus on the breathing again.

 

Just my opinion/experience with the matter.

 

 
 
Steve,

Could you explain the breathing ladders in a little more detail?  Is this something different than sets of ten swings as in S&S?
 
I also started with 10 breaths for 10 swings and was surprised how well I recovered taking 10 deep slow breaths through the nose as opposed to gulping air through the mouth. I also use 10 breaths between 1 rep each side TGU's and that is working well to.
 
might be worth your while to get a yoga breathing app.  Great for practising breath control. Breathing and heart rate are closely related so if you learn to influence one you will also influence the other.

 
 
A detail on the side, ladies and gents.  Increased stress facilitates glycolysis—which means more burn and fatigue.  Reduce the stress and improve your endurance.
 
So to connect the dots, implementing the timed nasal breathing concepts reduces stress and increases endurance, thus making me both mentally and physically resilient.  Correct?
 
owning your breath makes everything work better.

I have experimented with a BUNCH of different concepts and combinations, some of which i have shred in workshops. Controlling your breathing is the opposite of "trying harder"…..which means it works.
 
Jeffrey, have you read Easy Strength yet?  If not, I recommend you do so.

Breathing through your nose will necessarily limit your level of effort, and one of the Easy Strength's core concepts is that you can improve your strength by making a moderate effort - e.g., one limited by nasal breathing - feel easier than it once did.  If what felt like a 70% effort now feels like a 50% effort, you have gotten stronger, whether that's in a grinding lift like a barbell deadlift or for a set of 10 swings with a particular size kettlebell.

Now consider trainees who compromise form in order to achieve more repetitions and you'll see that S&S is quite the opposite, encouraging you to become the calm master of your technique.

I think S&S addresses what is perhaps the biggest pothole on the road of intermediate lifters to destination of elite levels of performance - they overtrain, using too high a percentage of intensity too often.  We know, of course, that there are some champion lifters who seem to go all-out at every training sessions but, to my mind, they are the exceptions that prove the rule.  Most of us cannot do that, and to attempt to copy that particular aspect of some elite lifters' training is to doom one's self to an endless cycle of burning out, quitting, and starting over again.  I'll also add that many people who think they are achieving progress with a "leave it all on the gym floor" approach simply haven't truly mastered the art of giving 100%.

-S-
 
Can I do this by inhaling in about a second, holding the breath for a period of time, and then exhaling in about a second?  This way my lungs are full of air for most of that breath.  Does that qualify as breathing slowly?

The other way would be to slowly inhale, hold the breath, and then slowly exhale.  The total elapsed time might be the same for each breath, but the total time with full lungs would be less.

The first option seems quite a bit easier.
 
I mentioned this here before, but it fits here.

When I was a kid, I was very much into martial arts. There was a show on at the time called "The Master" about an old ninja mentoring a young ninja wanna-be (or something like that). I was 12 years old or so, into martial arts, and this had ninjas, so I was all over it.

In one episode, the old ninja was lying on the floor, and the young one thought he was dead. The old one got up, and said he was simply breathing so shallowly and slowly, that he was able to slow down his heart rate to the point of it being barely perceptible.

I thought this was a cool idea (even though it was just a TV show), and started trying it whenever I got winded. Instead of slumping over and gasping, I would force myself to breathe in through my nose, very slowly and deeply, and would concentrate on purposely slowing my heart down. Sounds weird and new-agey, but it sure seemed to work for me, and I found that I would catch my breath faster this way.

In through the nose, slow and deep, hold it for a couple of seconds, and out through the mouth, again slowly.

I just started doing this as a kid, and it became my default breathing pattern when I get winded.
 
Good point by Steve Freides on the burnout-quit-repeat cycle, and how people who talk tough don't really know what really hard really is.  Counterproductive, that's what it is.

I don't overthink breathing during lifting.  It's over fast, and a little stress is a good thing.  I do find the nosebreathing guideline helpful with jogging and hike/jogs.

It's also a matter of lifestyle.  People get into a pattern of being stressed all day, every day, and don't even know it, because they are too busy to reflect and self-examine.

Nassim Nicholas Taleb on stress hormones: http://youtu.be/p1USDNmNQOE
 
On this point I recommend Vladimir Vasiliever & Scott Meredith's "Let Every Breath...", its kind of the Systema breathwork foundations manual...a catalogue of various breathwork exercises.  I found it fascinating how S&S dovetails with Let Every Breath... makes sense given the fact that Vlad is a former Specnaz operator himself.  If you can apply it consistently (like anything) you can really unlock some interesting stuff with specific breath training.  Its a more in-depth exploration of some of the breathwork stuff lightly touched on in S&S.  Enjoy!
 
Just to add, I use the Systema breathwork stuff as a precursor to my S&S work and am finding the combination provides a very effective training package.
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom