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Kettlebell If S&S is considered a good programme for GPP, why would we do other lifts?

watchnerd said:
Not quite.

Batman can clean and press 690 lbs.

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s***ty form. Look at those bent arms on the first pull. And if he had a bit more speed he could have dropped under and not had to press it out to finish.

But, the real question is - what kind of pants is he wearing that he can get a s***ty 690 and they don't rip?????
 
mrwhy said:
s***ty form. Look at those bent arms on the first pull. And if he had a bit more speed he could have dropped under and not had to press it out to finish.

But, the real question is - what kind of pants is he wearing that he can get a s***ty 690 and they don't rip?????
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It looks almost like he did a Continental clean.

*shaking my head*

I thought Bats was more athletic than that....
 
SUOMI-PUKU said:
Is it really unrealistic to have someone 64kg completing Simple training 5 times per week by the way?

Would it be similar to an average weight person completing it with 40kg or is there more to think about than just %BW?
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I'm above average weight and height (5'11 / 220 lbs / 100 kg), but also above average age (53) and a long training age (decades), and I found the swing portion of 40 kg S&S challenging, but manageable, at 5x a week.

I can't comment on the TGU, though, as my TGU maxed out at 36 kg before I closed the book on S&S and moved on to other things.
 
SUOMI-PUKU said:
Is it really unrealistic to have someone 64kg completing Simple training 5 times per week by the way?

Would it be similar to an average weight person completing it with 40kg or is there more to think about than just %BW?
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Not at all.

Around this time last year I did a timeless simple recharge session the day after an SFG weekend and weighed in at 63kg

Master instructor @Pavel Macek completed sinister at around 69-70kg

You just got to put in the work, challenge your limitations smartly.
 
I think you don't really need much more than S&S if you're just wanting a general fitness base etc... 2 guys I follow (and recommend others follow as well) are kettlebell Sean and kettlebell grant on Instagram... Their system is predominantly swings and getups but sprinkle in some pushups, carries, and squats

Most ppl need to be proficient in the major patterns, but I don't think all patterns need to be trained at the same rate... You could add in some goblet squats and TRX rows then get into your S&S practice then finish with some carries

These 2 guys pump a lot of free content and examples of simple programs and progression that are centered around swings and getups, just scroll their page

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Earlier I had typed up a multi-point post. Coming back awhile later all I can say is;

S&S will remain my “Home Base”. Regardless of whatever else I might do, I’ll still use it…probably at least once a week. If nothing else it’s a good measuring stick and if I can still do 16-24KG TGU’s at 65-70 years of age I’m ahead of 99% of the population.

I’ve realized though that S&S only is not enough…for me. But some weeks or months it will be. The key is to move! But for 99% of the population, S&S probably is enough.

All I know is I feel better moving through the swings and TGU’s consistently every week. I have learned to stop paying attention to the weight. Even though a few weeks ago I hit untimed simple. And you know what happened? Nothing. No trumpets, not even much satisfaction in accomplishing it. Why? Because I still can’t do a TGU bottoms up with my 16KG. There is ALWAYS something new to learn, even with the lighter weights. Focus on the process, enjoy the journey, stop worrying about hitting some magical KB weight. Each person is unique.

If you’re burning out only doing S&S, mix it up. Switch out one day each week for something else for awhile. Even if it’s just go for a walk. Or bodyweight exercise. Or take two weeks off. It won’t hurt your progression that much. And might give you some gains if you’re over doing it and not recovering properly.
 
If I needed to knock someone down, I am thinking some of the other movements might better prepare me. And whether you are defending yourself or playing a sport, that is kind of what it is about.
 
solarbear said:
If I needed to knock someone down, I am thinking some of the other movements might better prepare me. And whether you are defending yourself or playing a sport, that is kind of what it is about.
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Well...seems like very slight modifications could be all that's needed;

www.strongfirst.com

S&C Training for MMA With Simple & Sinister | StrongFirst

Here is a summary of our basic S&C Training for MMA with UFC fighter Viktor Pešta - including his strength and conditioning training, how he ate, and more.
www.strongfirst.com

The genius of S&S is found in the simplification of it, and distillation of all the main movements needed into a short and easy to follow program, and truly might be all that the majority needs.
It's one of those systems that can be run alongside some other program. Or as a "fall-back" program to hit a minimum if one has a very busy life.
 
solarbear said:
If I needed to knock someone down, I am thinking some of the other movements might better prepare me. And whether you are defending yourself or playing a sport, that is kind of what it is about.
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GPP isn't supposed to be preparation for any individual sport, it's supposed to be a foundation on which sport-specific training can follow or coexist.

-S-
 
Not read all the posts here but @Cyrus-II touches on it....you can approach S&S from different perspectives. Enough detail to blast out some swings and get ups to a detailed exploration of the nuances of each movement. And everything in-between.

Certainly not advocating to only do swings and get ups forever excluding all other movements forever but they can exist for a long time as a unit and not be detrimental to progress, be it health maintenance or/and athletic performance.

I'm reacquainting myself with swings and get ups again after a long break and loving life. Soon shopping for a 40kg for this winter's planned swing season.
 
Steve Freides said:
@Pavel Macek completed Sinister by following the plan in the book and he weighs 68 kg. It seems perfectly realistic to me, 69 kg and 68 years young, to complete Simple by training as the book suggests. I haven't done it because I generally do heavy 2h swings (48 and 56 kg) at least half the time. I'm able to performs 1h swings @ 32 kg.

-S-
SUOMI-PUKU said:
Is it really unrealistic to have someone 64kg completing Simple training 5 times per week by the way?
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I think the book recommends decreasing frequency after 32kg.
Certianly, while I can comfortably do 1h swings @36kg, at age 60, I just don't recover well enough to do 10x10 swings + 10 TGUs 5x a week.
I do participate in other sports so maybe if I focussed only on S&S it would be achievable. I have only managed the timed S&S test @28kg. But I haven't focussed on S&S for years.
I guess it depends what your priorities are.
 
Davidlbn said:
I guess it depends what your priorities are.
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A fine point in a discussion like this, one that's been made in other ways already. S&S can serve many purposes.

Davidlbn said:
Certianly, while I can comfortably do 1h swings @36kg, at age 60, I just don't recover well enough to do 10x10 swings + 10 TGUs 5x a week.
I do participate in other sports so maybe if I focussed only on S&S it would be achievable.
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Exactly - you do other things, so S&S should be on the back burner once, IMO, you've achieved Timeless Simple with a 32 kg bell.

-S-
 
Anna C said:
I've watched a lot of weightlifting competitions the past 3 years (watched almost none prior to that - maybe the Olympics once or twice) and from my perspective what makes them interesting to watch is that every competitor is trying a very difficult lift. You get to watch their approach, their technique, whether or not they make it, and their reaction. Then the next competitor comes out. Then you see the strategy in the meet overall as one competitor may try to best another as they try to do their own best lifts that day.

All that to say, I haven't watched a GS competition, but seems like you're watching the suffering more than anything else there. Of course the technique and everything... but each lift repetition in itself doesn't carry much drama.

Funny how "same movement, different tool" -- snatch, and C&J -- can be so very different in competition.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of weightlifting and Hard Style Kettlebell. I do both Hard Style and Sport Style. I wish I could do weight lifting, because my class mate was a Nordic Champion, but I can't due to my low back disorder. So, man will do what he must and I do what I can. Sometimes it's just push ups, but if Gods allow and planets are aligned, then I can do some more... on a good day.

Couple of articles to clear out my thoughts:
www.strongfirst.com

Simple & Sinister Training for Kettlebell Sport Athletes | StrongFirst

Lower body power, upper body stability, grip, and strong heart and lungs. Things the kettlebell sport athlete needs, and Simple & Sinister delivers.
www.strongfirst.com
www.strongfirst.com

Flexibility Exercises for Kettlebell Training and Kettlebell Sport | StrongFirst

Although this article is dedicated to flexibility exercises specifically for Girevoy Sport, I believe it will benefit anyone who trains with kettlebells.
www.strongfirst.com

I will do S&S to improve my sport skills, when I can.
 
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Steve Freides said:
GPP isn't supposed to be preparation for any individual sport, it's supposed to be a foundation on which sport-specific training can follow or coexist.

-S-
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True. I agree SS is great all round GPP for everyday living. OTOH I don't know if SS would keep me fit enough in some areas to play a sport like soccer or full court basketball should I be forced to play a pick up game.

For a lot of blokes though GPP is about 'feeling strong' and that might involve knowing you can hold your own and doing some exercises to prepare them for that. So I don't know if there is a practical reason for doing more than SS but there might be some psychological. I guess that is why most guys want some hypertrophy or explosiveness from their training even their GPP.
 
solarbear said:
True. I agree SS is great all round GPP for everyday living. OTOH I don't know if SS would keep me fit enough in some areas to play a sport like soccer or full court basketball should I be forced to play a pick up game.

For a lot of blokes though GPP is about 'feeling strong' and that might involve knowing you can hold your own and doing some exercises to prepare them for that. So I don't know if there is a practical reason for doing more than SS but there might be some psychological. I guess that is why most guys want some hypertrophy or explosiveness from their training even their GPP.
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Funnily, I did actually do that.
After about a year of S&S and walking, the dads were asked to play the U12 lads in a dads vs. boys match.
I felt absolutely great and had loads in the tank.
Only an hour or so playing time but we were running around hard.
Far from elite sport level but nice to be able to get involved. Many mums and dads in their 40s can't join in like that.
 
Cyrus-II said:
S&S will remain my “Home Base”. Regardless of whatever else I might do, I’ll still use it…probably at least once a week.
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I don't return to S&S as frequently as you do. I use it now as a place holder when I am between programs. It is an excellent way to stay engaged when I can't commit to a structured program because of work commitments or interruption from travel.

I last ran S&S with the 36k bell and some reps with the 40k bell in March of 2022. I then began my current cycle of double KB programs. I will finish Maximorum in late August. I plan to start Strong! with 2x32k bells on September 11th. I have a very busy work/travel schedule between finishing Maximorum and beginning Strong. I plan to run Timeless Simple during this time to keep engaged. I hopefully will be able to complete 3 sessions a week.
 
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