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Kettlebell If S&S is considered a good programme for GPP, why would we do other lifts?

watchnerd said:
So once you're no longer a beginner, i.e. you can snatch and clean, do you really still need to swing?
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Need to, no. But there's a lot you can get out of swings, uniquely:
  • You don't really set the pace with swings like you do with cleans and snatches. You commit to the set, and the kettlebell sets the pace. That can provide a unique stimulus by forcing you go to a pace or tempo of reps that you might not choose to.
  • Swings can go really heavy
  • Swings can be maximally explosive. Cleans and snatches have to be more measured; just the right amount of power.
  • With swings you can do a LOT of work, and not tire out the shoulders and arms, even though they are also getting some stimulus. In this regard you can use them for a program like S&S that ensures a certain amount of work gets done, and they are also a good option for days when you want to do a lot of something as a finisher perhaps, with random programming. So many reps/set combos can be employed for good effects. (To some extent you can do that with cleans and snatches too, but I feel like not quite so much as with swings.)
 
Pavel.Kosenkov said:
If swings and getups are so great, why would I want to do the other lifts from SFG1 skillset?
Why would I add anything to the S&S progression?
In the back of my mind I understand that the SFG1 is the most useful way to use a kettlebell. And that those skills should be practiced.
But - for a regular guy: why would I snatch if I swing? Why would I press, if I do getups?
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If you want to be healthy and fit, swings and get-ups are enough.

If you want to be strong in more ways than you get with swings and get-ups, then you need to press, squat, and do other exercises.

Snatches are just wicked and challenging. "The Tsar of kettlebell lifts"... Always there for those who want to go for them.
 
Anna C said:
  • You don't really set the pace with swings like you do with cleans and snatches. You commit to the set, and the kettlebell sets the pace. That can provide a unique stimulus by forcing you go to a pace or tempo of reps that you might not choose to.
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Great point. Although the bell only sets a MINIMUM tempo. You can alway increase it with over speed eccentrics for added fun.
 
Georgiaoutdoors said:
For example anecdotally

Trailing > road running > treadmill running as far as enjoyment goes and think it’s in part due to the increased variability of the movement.
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Also trail running makes you feel like you have superhuman speed as you watch the leaves and branches rush past you. Road running makes you feel like you are running at your real speed. Treadmills make you feel like you are standing still.
 
Why you want to lift in the first place? I started S&S with 8 kg almost exactly two years ago from now because I found it pathetic that carrying groceries felt so heavy. That issue was fixed already in the same November when 24 kg bell was introduced. I could have stayed there but I got hooked and I want to see how far I can proceed. And continue with other lifts when I'm done with S&S. I don't have to, it's my own choice.
 
I like steak and I like ice cream, but I wouldn't want to eat them every single day or I would get sick of them.

Sticking with only 2 lifts can create muscular imbalances and also I'd be very bored. We should have have some variety in training.

On the other hand, if you like doing an ultra minimalist routine and it suits your goals, keep at it as long as you enjoy it. Training should always be enjoyable.
 
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Interesting thread, enjoying all the thoughts!
It strikes me that there are two main reasons/ ways to use S&S.

1. For general fitness/GPP or as additional training for someone practicing another sport. It offers the two main benefits of kettlebells(imo): explosive hip power and shoulder resilience. It’s easy to recover from, simple and doesn’t take too long.

2. As an introduction and foundation to kettlebell lifting. As I mentioned earlier working towards simple gives a great foundation for learning the other lifts. With this approach I think it is beneficial to start practicing the Clean and press and later the snatch once things are ticking over nicely. That way you can hit simple while also having Learned the other lifts which you can build strength in your next program.
 
Washed up Meathead. said:
I like steak and I like ice cream, but I wouldn't want to eat them every single day or I would get sick of them.

Sticking with only 2 lifts can create muscular imbalances and also I'd be very bored. We should have have some variety in training.

On the other hand, if you like doing an ultra minimalist routine and it suits your goals, keep at it as long as you enjoy it. Training should always be enjoyable.
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I was just thinking something similar since I'm a bit hungry at the moment

As a friend says, he has munchers that tide him by before the next meal or if he wants something different.
 
Getups allow me to put more weight above my head in one hand than I am able to press.
Getups helped my shoulders recover from surgery and improved my posture.
That said, I haven't done a TGU in 9 months as I've built on that foundation and have been pressing three times a week without discomfort.
Swings on the other hand...
Perhaps it comes down to where you naturally align, as defined by Dan John in his Easy Strength Omnibook; Push vs. Pull, and Squat vs. Hinge.
 
Chris Hall said:
Also trail running makes you feel like you have superhuman speed as you watch the leaves and branches rush past you. Road running makes you feel like you are running at your real speed. Treadmills make you feel like you are standing still.
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Completely agree. Although some purists are against it, I love trail running with music, often soundtracks from my favorite movies.

I tried to hack it by facing my treadmill towards my big TV and putting on a YouTube video of a POV trail hike/run. Only marginally better than just running facing a wall.
 
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Thank you everyone.
Anna - a great reply about the swing.
Steve - as always, - you are polite, correct and insightful. And everyone else - I appreciate a lot.

I will ask another question, maybe it will put my mind on a right track.

Is there a point of training for an SFG1 cert before achieving the simple standard?
I am 64kg, timed simple with 32kg would be pretty impressive for me.
And if yes - let's say I succeed and I have passed the snatch test.
How would I be able to recommend people S&S training, if I did not complete it myself?

About the GS video: those are not hard style snatches, and the technique serves the different purpose.
It's like a kipping pull-up is not a pull-up.
 
Anna C said:
If you want to be healthy and fit, swings and get-ups are enough.
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I disagree. You'll still be missing out on a lot.

Anna C said:
If you want to be strong in more ways than you get with swings and get-ups, then you need to press, squat, and do other exercises.
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Stronger, more muscle, more conditioning, etc., then you absolutely need those movements and more!
 
Pavel.Kosenkov said:
Is there a point of training for an SFG1 cert before achieving the simple standard?
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Absolutely! Because many people will not reach the Simple goal especially if you're smaller (like you and me).

I've never been able to 1-Arm Swing the 32kg (at a body-weight of 125-132lbs) because it's more than half my body-weight and my grip is the limiting factor. The most I've been able to do is 28kg.

However, I could only complete the 100 1-Arm Swings with 24kg in 5 minutes and complete all 10 Get-ups in 10 minutes with 36kg.

So, just because I won't be able to achieve "Simple" with my 1-Arm Swings it doesn't mean I'm not qualified to perform any other exercises or programs.

"Simple" (and "Sinister") is merely a goal to work toward.

Pavel.Kosenkov said:
I am 64kg, timed simple with 32kg would be pretty impressive for me.
And if yes - let's say I succeed and I have passed the snatch test.
How would I be able to recommend people S&S training, if I did not complete it myself?
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Because you don't need to achieve the "Simple" goal in order to recommend S&S to others.

S&S is good for anyone at any strength level to build foundational movement that is also a prerequisite for more advanced exercises like Cleans and Snatches. The amount of weight used doesn't matter. Movement proficiency is the goal.

And limiting yourself to S&S is ridiculous. You would be leaving a lot on the table when it comes to strength, muscle, conditioning, and aesthetics.
 
It’s worth remembering that Goblet Squats are part of the program too, as well as hanging from a pull up bar (if you have one). So you do get a bit of squat and pull work alongside the hinge (swing) and isometric push/“carry” as Dan John classifies it (TGU).
 
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