Kettlebell If S&S is considered a good programme for GPP, why would we do other lifts?

[jayjo]

Fun. Variety. Muscle gain.
The body adapts quickly so we need to keep suprizing it with different weights, movements, rep schemes, etc. to gain muscle.
Also doing the same thing over and over gets boring.

 

[Pavel.Kosenkov]

I think of the question inverted:

Why swing if you can clean and snatch?

Yeah, not the best answer.
But - how about: "Because Pavel said so in the book?"

 

[Adachi]

Yeah, not the best answer.
But - how about: "Because Pavel said so in the book?"

The way I think of this - I came to the book for answers.
the book didn't hunt me down and make me read it.

Ergo - Follow the plan - and then - evaluate the results.

 

[watchnerd]

Yeah, not the best answer.
But - how about: "Because Pavel said so in the book?"

Pavel said what in the book?

I don't remember much about snatches and cleans in S&S at all.

Granted, it's been a while since I read it, and Pavel's various books start to blur a bit together in my memory.

 

[Don Fairbanks]

IMO, also interesting.

 

[silveraw]

Yeah, not the best answer.
But - how about: "Because Pavel said so in the book?"

I believe he said to explore other exercises and modalities towards the end of the book.

Post simple. Which if you manage to follow the progression as written means after a year and a half or something like that.

Alternatively you can experiment yourself and see why you would want more exercises.

 

[bluejeff]

By far my first priority in my training is whether it is fun.

Same. I’ve enjoyed swings from time to time but every time I’ve tried swings and getups I just get kind of bored.

Re the brain and movement:
Having been through a movement disorder myself, I can say not being able to move the way you want/need definitely impacts overall well being. Seems like kind of a “duh statement” reading it though.

 

[TedM]

Ahhh, it must be that time for the mandated quarterly review on why one chooses to practice just the swing and get up....

We are eager to see the data from your meta study when it's ready.

 

[Pavel.Kosenkov]

Pavel said what in the book?

I don't remember much about snatches and cleans in S&S at all.

Granted, it's been a while since I read it, and Pavel's various books start to blur a bit together in my memory.

No, but he did say that getups and swings are fundamental movements. On which I agree, of course.
Read "Pavel said so" metaphorically. What I meant is: he told to do swings and getups in the book.
S&S book is referenced as a go-to for a beginner.
The question is - when should one do something else? Me - for example, - I am nowhere near the simple standard.
I can, however, squat, clean and press quite good. Thus - this thread.

 

[GovernorSilver]

I did S&S until I decided to pursue calisthenics goals - handstand pushup, one-arm chinup, planche pushup, front lever.

I did put in about 6 months of S&S practice.

 

[SUOMI-PUKU]

Well if you’re determined to do exactly as the book or Pavel says then once you reach Simple.

 

[offwidth]

The question is - when should one do something else?

1. When one wants to.
2. When one’s goals aren’t supported by what they are currently doing…

 

[watchnerd]

No, but he did say that getups and swings are fundamental movements. On which I agree, of course.
Read "Pavel said so" metaphorically. What I meant is: he told to do swings and getups in the book.
S&S book is referenced as a go-to for a beginner.
The question is - when should one do something else? Me - for example, - I am nowhere near the simple standard.
I can, however, squat, clean and press quite good. Thus - this thread.

Right.

So once you're no longer a beginner, i.e. you can snatch and clean, do you really still need to swing?

 

[TedM]

Right.

So once you're no longer a beginner, i.e. you can snatch and clean, do you really still need to swing?

I think this is a good question.

 

[Pavel.Kosenkov]

I second. It's a very good question.
Consider - you can swing 32kg. And you can snatch 16kg.
If the bell is of a different size - swings matter. If you have just one bell - no doubt the snatch will beat the swing.
You can swing heavier. The force projection is more to the front.
Clean is just getting the bell into the rack, unless it's a double clean, - those are heavy. IMHO.

 

[masa]

Swing is only a assistant movement, when you are going to snatch seriously. This lady will outlast than many of men...

 

[bluejeff]

The question is - when should one do something else? Me - for example, - I am nowhere near the simple standard.
I can, however, squat, clean and press quite good. Thus - this thread.

The way I view the whole S&S => RoP type progression is that it’s a blueprint for people who want to get into training with kettlebells. It’s structured to help you follow something. I don’t think it’s “set in stone” for any reason other than if you can do timed simple, you will likely have the strength and conditioning to do a program of C&P and snatching, probably with a bell heavier than just a 16kg.

When I was following gymnastic bodies, it’s the same kind of reason they had the progressions they had. If you can do (15reps)x5 rounds of push-ups, doing dips won’t be such a leap. But there’s no reason you can’t start dipping sooner.

TLDR: it’s a program. You can follow it, or not. Since it’s also minimalist, it’s just meant to cover a lot of ground for having only two main moves (which you already know).

 

[watchnerd]

Swing is only a assistant movement, when you are going to snatch seriously. This lady will outlast than many of men...

I have massive respect for the ability of GS athletes to endure suffering.

But Sweet Christmas it must be the most boring spectator sport in the world.

No wonder it had to be invented under Communism where ratings didn't matter.

 

[Steve Freides]

It's not a provoking question. It's something I ask myself.
If swings and getups are so great, why would I want to do the other lifts from SFG1 skillset?
Why would I add anything to the S&S progression?
In the back of my mind I understand that the SFG1 is the most useful way to use a kettlebell. And that those skills should be practiced.
But - for a regular guy: why would I snatch if I swing? Why would I press, if I do getups?
It's a thought experiment, and I would appreciate external input. Please, let me know what you think.

It's not a provoking question. It's something I ask myself.

It's not something most of us ask ourselves. But you have asked - onward, then!

If swings and getups are so great, why would I want to do the other lifts from SFG1 skillset?

Characterizing swings and getups as "fundamental movement patterns" or words to that effect isn't the same as calling them "so great." That something is fundamental doesn't make it required of everyone.

Why would I add anything to the S&S progression?

No one thinks that S&S is "the one true way." Why would you _not_ add something that would help you achieve your goals?

But - for a regular guy: why would I snatch if I swing?

The snatch is more of a "one stop shop" than the swing, but its requirements (shoulder-t-spine mobility) are higher and so is its learning curve, two very good reasons not to do it: you can't for mobility reasons or you can't because you haven't learned how to do it.

Why would I press, if I do getups?

Perhaps your goals are better served by presses than by getups. We can't tell you if that's true for you, but it is true for some people.

It's a thought experiment, and I would appreciate external input. Please, let me know what you think.

There is no "one true way" to exercise - such a thing doesn't exist.

Fundamentals are important but they're not everything, and some people manage somehow to bypass them and still do ok.

Any exercise is better than none so long as it improves your health and doesn't detract from it.

Not all goals can be achieved through exercise.

Sometimes the perfect is the enemy of the good. My recommendation is that you don't think about things like this often and, instead, use the time and the brain- and body-power to exercise.

Happy Friday and a good weekend to everyone reading along. My exercise today was walking to the recycling center in my town with some cardboard boxes, and stopping to use the exercise stations in the park along the way. I did a few dips, a few pullups, and a couple of pistols, and zero swings, getups, snatches, presses or Big 6, and at home some bar hangs.

-S-

 

[Formovereverything]

With any program, we need to understand why it was developed and what was the end goal.
S&S was not developed to be the one stop shop for everything. S&S was developed for the average Joe/Jane as a holistic minimalist approach toward general fitness. Every goal/program will have varying focus to achieve the expected outcome.