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Bodyweight Increasing handstand pushup reps

bluejeff

Level 7 Valued Member
So over the summer I have been greasing the groove with handstand pushups (hspus). I started with a heavy 2-rep max, doing singles and sometimes doubles, working up over time, and now my rep max is about 5. If I really rested well for a week or something, I bet it would go up. I am happy with the results, and I enjoy being able to frequently practice a movement I like a lot. I typically do reps of 3, with occasional forays into 4s and 5s. I would like to increase my RM, while keeping some kind of higher frequency approach (I think I have been averaging 4 days per week).

I feel a little stuck at this level; a lot of the time, I can get a set of 4-5 in, and then later on in the day, I can only get sets of 3. I'd like to see this increase again, but I am not entirely sure what approach to take. It's also entirely possible it's just a phase that will take a while to adapt to. When I started doing pike pushups, sets of 3-5 were pretty tough for a while, but after some time they just started getting easier.

I am debating between increasing reps per set and decreasing sets, or decreasing reps per set and increasing sets. I feel like what I have been doing is somewhere between greasing the groove and something like Soju and Tuba. That is, frequent but pretty heavy.

Currently I average something like 5-10 sets of 3, about 4 days per week, sometimes going for higher reps or sets, and sometimes reducing based on how I feel.
 
I think, if i was you, I'd do this progression for a free-standing handstand tutorial:



I find when I get stuck on calisthenics, it really helps to go waaaaaaay back to much earlier steps and work on a different progression path to the same (or same-ish) movement. It seems to fill up a lot of holes that were missing and when I try the original movement I blast through my earlier PRs.
 
Nothing new..

If you have a copy of kettlebell strong.. run phase 1 but use handstand push-ups

Another approach is GTG 1-2 reps for 2 weeks but really focus on close to perfect reps
 
Is there any movement that you can scale back from HSPU? I'm thinking about keeping hspu volume minimal in first 3-6 weeks, more volume in similar movement. After first block slowly increase hspu volume while decreasing other lift volume.
 
Hung said:
Is there any movement that you can scale back from HSPU? I'm thinking about keeping hspu volume minimal in first 3-6 weeks, more volume in similar movement. After first block slowly increase hspu volume while decreasing other lift volume.
Click to expand...
Yes

Partial rep HSPU
Pike pushups
 
Hello,

I would also go for pike push ups. They allow more training volume and are a regression of HSPU. As far as sets and reps are concerned, I'd use a Dan John's ES approach with 2 sets of 8, on a daily / almost daily basis. After a few weeks (3-4), I'd reassess my HSPU max reps.

Overall, what would dictate the variation I'd use would be the number of repetitiosn I am able to do, while staying in a "comfort zone" (ES approach). Thus, if I am only able to do sets of 2 or 3, or conversely, sets of 15+, this is not the "right" variation to use.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
bluejeff said:
That is, frequent but pretty heavy.
Click to expand...
In the past, I've had success with a 3-steps forward, 1 backoff week approach. IOW, have one planned heavy day per week, and progress it by a one rep per month - that might seem slow, but if you like training near your limits, it's solid. Heavy day would be something like this:

Week 1 = 4 reps
Week 2 = 5 reps
Week 3 = 6 reps
Week 4 = 3 reps

Week 5 = 5 reps
Week 6 = 6 reps
Week 7 = 7 reps
Week 8 = 4 reps

So you'd be aiming to add one rep to your RM per month. E.g., the above would be your Wednesdays, and you'd also train with but away from your max on Monday, Friday, and maybe the weekend, maybe singles and double on the other days in the first month, maybe a little more as your RM goes up over time. And make the backoff week easier in both the RM day and the other days, even train for fewer days that week.

-S-
 
Mark Limbaga said:
Nothing new..

If you have a copy of kettlebell strong.. run phase 1 but use handstand push-ups

Another approach is GTG 1-2 reps for 2 weeks but really focus on close to perfect reps
Click to expand...
I don't have a copy. My intuition is to do the lower-rep GtG approach.

Hung said:
Is there any movement that you can scale back from HSPU? I'm thinking about keeping hspu volume minimal in first 3-6 weeks, more volume in similar movement. After first block slowly increase hspu volume while decreasing other lift volume.
Click to expand...
I ran pike pushups and overhead press variations for like 2 years and for some reason it didn't do much for actually taking my feet off the ground. it wasn't until I actually walked up the wall and started roughing it through actual reps of HSPUs (1 or 2, like I said) that I started seeing any meaningful progress.

Steve Freides said:
In the past, I've had success with a 3-steps forward, 1 backoff week approach. IOW, have one planned heavy day per week, and progress it by a one rep per month - that might seem slow, but if you like training near your limits, it's solid.


So you'd be aiming to add one rep to your RM per month. E.g., the above would be your Wednesdays, and you'd also train with but away from your max on Monday, Friday, and maybe the weekend, maybe singles and double on the other days in the first month, maybe a little more as your RM goes up over time. And make the backoff week easier in both the RM day and the other days, even train for fewer days that week.

-S-
Click to expand...
I like this, if I am getting what you're saying. Let me see if I am understanding you right: So I would have one day per week where I went for the higher rep ("rep-max") ranges, and the rest of the week I would keep it lower? I am having trouble understanding what you mean in what I bolded. What do you mean by "with, but away from...?"
 
@bluejeff
What's your sticking point of HSPU? Or what do you feel hard during the lift?
Can you modify the pike push up to make you work in that hard part without beating yourself up?
My though process is like using halting deadlift at 70-80% 1RM DL to work the off the floor. Now you use pike (70-80%) , focus on the range of motion that you weak.

Another thing to consider is working on other skills that handstand related. That has worked for me in the past. Daily handstand/planche training. You can alternative between handstand day/handstand push up day/raise to handstand day (like from bent arm tuck planche to handstand). It's not strictly related with improving the HSPU, but it satisfies the daily training and you still build some strength too.
 
bluejeff said:
I like this, if I am getting what you're saying. Let me see if I am understanding you right: So I would have one day per week where I went for the higher rep ("rep-max") ranges, and the rest of the week I would keep it lower? I am having trouble understanding what you mean in what I bolded. What do you mean by "with, but away from...?"
Click to expand...
Yes, exactly. One hard day per week where you aim for a solid max. I like being ok with the reps slowly down a little, but never starting the rep you aren't completely confident in finishing, but you could use a technical max instead. I would not use an all-out max. The other days, you take it a bit easier but you get in your volume and technique practice without trying for max reps.

"With" should be: the other days you'd still train, but away from your max. You can play around with the other days a bit, e.g., if your current max is 5 reps, you could even try some singles wearing a weighted vest or ankle weights, but keep the volume low on those. The idea is to accumulate relevant training without trying to hit a new max. And once a month, making a conservative addition to your max is possible. And anytime you feel, e.g., that you got one more rep but you hadn't really improved, you just pushed harder, consider adding an addition backoff week as the following week before ramping up again.

-S-
 
Hung said:
@bluejeff
What's your sticking point of HSPU? Or what do you feel hard during the lift?
Can you modify the pike push up to make you work in that hard part without beating yourself up?
My though process is like using halting deadlift at 70-80% 1RM DL to work the off the floor. Now you use pike (70-80%) , focus on the range of motion that you weak.

Another thing to consider is working on other skills that handstand related. That has worked for me in the past. Daily handstand/planche training. You can alternative between handstand day/handstand push up day/raise to handstand day (like from bent arm tuck planche to handstand). It's not strictly related with improving the HSPU, but it satisfies the daily training and you still build some strength too.
Click to expand...
Sticking point is always in the deepest range of motion. Something about the position of pike pushups doesn't load my shoulders the way I need them loaded for HSPUs. I got quite strong at pike pushups, but HSPUs never felt better for it. It was like I had to feel what it was like to have only my arms and shoulders working, with no chance of the legs "helping" to lift me up.

If I had more time I would practice handstands and whatnot more, but my available training time has shrunk considerably this school semester.
 
Steve Freides said:
Yes, exactly. One hard day per week where you aim for a solid max. I like being ok with the reps slowly down a little, but never starting the rep you aren't completely confident in finishing, but you could use a technical max instead. I would not use an all-out max. The other days, you take it a bit easier but you get in your volume and technique practice without trying for max reps.

"With" should be: the other days you'd still train, but away from your max. You can play around with the other days a bit, e.g., if your current max is 5 reps, you could even try some singles wearing a weighted vest or ankle weights, but keep the volume low on those. The idea is to accumulate relevant training without trying to hit a new max. And once a month, making a conservative addition to your max is possible. And anytime you feel, e.g., that you got one more rep but you hadn't really improved, you just pushed harder, consider adding an addition backoff week as the following week before ramping up again.

-S-
Click to expand...
This is kind of what I have been doing. Perhaps it's just a patience thing. Adding one rep to the RM each month would be fine with me. That's consistent and not too unreasonable a goal, as long as I don't overdo my overall volume.
 
You're practicing handstand push-ups!

Great!

Me, too!

How about your hand positioning?

A narrower stance makes handstand push-ups much more challenging.

A wider stance makes it much easier.

Personally, I recommend starting with a narrower stance closer to shoulder-width from the beginning.

I think it can make you stronger in handstand push-ups and presses, even though it's more challenging.

And I believe that filming yourself to check your form is also important.

Good luck!

Happy practice!
 
Hung said:
What's about deep pike push up (hands on blocks)? Or pike push up with feet elevated? Have you tried any of this?
Click to expand...
Yep. I did all of that. Honestly I just did so many pike push-ups so many different ways and for whatever reason it didn’t do it for me. I think something about the positioning contributed to some funky shoulder biomechanics I had going on. Doing hspus seems to be using that issue.
getthe1620 said:
You're practicing handstand push-ups!

Great!

Me, too!

How about your hand positioning?

A narrower stance makes handstand push-ups much more challenging.

A wider stance makes it much easier.

Personally, I recommend starting with a narrower stance closer to shoulder-width from the beginning.

I think it can make you stronger in handstand push-ups and presses, even though it's more challenging.

And I believe that filming yourself to check your form is also important.

Good luck!

Happy practice!
Click to expand...
Thanks! I do all sorts of hand positions: wide, narrower, fingers turned slightly out and slightly in. It seems to help me get more reps in when one position feels weak, and also hits the shoulders in a variety of ways.
 
STATUS UPDATE:
Currently can almost always perform sets of 5. On good days. I even get 5x5 spread throughout the rest of my training session. I do a few full-body sessions per week, typically, and I like to get at least a few sets of HSPU in between everything. So, on a good day, I can get 5x5 within something like 45-60 minutes.

Now I am plateauing at about 5 reps. My first "big" goal is to achieve a 10-rep max.

I am considering two paths:
A) increase total number of reps per day from 25 to... something.
B) increase density with a loose goal of hitting 5x5 within something like 15-20 minutes. This would give me ~3 minute breaks between sets

I am leaning towards A because I enjoy high frequency. Lifting my whole body off the ground with nothing but my arms feels cool :)

Any further suggestions? thanks!
 
bluejeff said:
STATUS UPDATE:
Currently can almost always perform sets of 5. On good days. I even get 5x5 spread throughout the rest of my training session. I do a few full-body sessions per week, typically, and I like to get at least a few sets of HSPU in between everything. So, on a good day, I can get 5x5 within something like 45-60 minutes.

Now I am plateauing at about 5 reps. My first "big" goal is to achieve a 10-rep max.

I am considering two paths:
A) increase total number of reps per day from 25 to... something.
B) increase density with a loose goal of hitting 5x5 within something like 15-20 minutes. This would give me ~3 minute breaks between sets

I am leaning towards A because I enjoy high frequency. Lifting my whole body off the ground with nothing but my arms feels cool :)

Any further suggestions? thanks!
Click to expand...
Fighter pullup program style for a bit of a peak and then deload and build up again?

What worked for you to get you to where you are now?
 
bluejeff said:
STATUS UPDATE:
Currently can almost always perform sets of 5. On good days. I even get 5x5 spread throughout the rest of my training session. I do a few full-body sessions per week, typically, and I like to get at least a few sets of HSPU in between everything. So, on a good day, I can get 5x5 within something like 45-60 minutes.

Now I am plateauing at about 5 reps. My first "big" goal is to achieve a 10-rep max.

I am considering two paths:
A) increase total number of reps per day from 25 to... something.
B) increase density with a loose goal of hitting 5x5 within something like 15-20 minutes. This would give me ~3 minute breaks between sets

I am leaning towards A because I enjoy high frequency. Lifting my whole body off the ground with nothing but my arms feels cool :)

Any further suggestions? thanks!
Click to expand...
Two options I'd consider..

1. Run phase 1 of strong for your HSPU
2. 3RM fighter pull-up plan
 
Hello,

In addition to the above, below are two alternatives (the 2nd being my favorite)
- Scaling down to an easier vertical press movement like [deficit*] pike push ups, allowing for more volume ( 5 sets of 7-10). That's something mentionned by A. Salkins (SFG2)
- 10 sets of 3, doing fast and loose between sets. This is a strategy I used in the past.
*push up bars for instance.

Another one which comes to my mind as I write, is a RoP format like (1, 2, 3)*n, up until you reach the desired number. This one can also be performed with a regression like pike push ups to do higher ladders.

Kind regard,

Pet'
 
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