Bodyweight Increasing handstand pushup reps

[bluejeff]

Fighter pullup program style for a bit of a peak and then deload and build up again?

What worked for you to get you to where you are now?

Greasing the groove. I started with a RM of like 2, just did reps of 2 throughout the day until it turned into 3, etc...

I like the idea of some kind of ladder. I used the FPP format in the past with pike pushups and it helped a lot.

Two options I'd consider..

1. Run phase 1 of strong for your HSPU
2. 3RM fighter pull-up plan

While realizing that cycling into lower volume to build back up might be good, I wonder if dropping all the way down to a daily repetition max of 5 isn't too far of a drop. Currently have been holding steady at 25 daily reps (spread out in various ways) for 3-5 days per week, semi-GtG style. I wonder if starting the FPP ladders at (5,4,3,2,1) might be better, seeing that I can hit 5x5 with long rests at least 2-3 days per week?

 

[Period]

Just give progressive range of a motion a try. Here's the protocol I came up with back when I was 16: Get a stack of books or something similar (6-8" high for starters), put a piece of foam or a folded towel on top. Place it where you want to do your HSPU, then put the head on the padding, kick up into a headstand, then do your push-ups. Select a height where 10 reps are easy. Do at least one set six days per week (I usually did 3x10, with 3-5 minutes rest). After a week, remove one book (no more than 1" thick, 1/2" may be better). After 6-16 weeks, you should be down all the way. Remember, don't rush, stay with "easy", nit with" grinding".
I'm a huge fan of progressive range of motion and use it whenever I can - for squats, deadlifts, even pullups. It got my pull-up max to 50 in a row a few years back, with usually no more than 1-2 sets per day.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Greasing the groove. I started with a RM of like 2, just did reps of 2 throughout the day until it turned into 3, etc...

I like the idea of some kind of ladder. I used the FPP format in the past with pike pushups and it helped a lot.


While realizing that cycling into lower volume to build back up might be good, I wonder if dropping all the way down to a daily repetition max of 5 isn't too far of a drop. Currently have been holding steady at 25 daily reps (spread out in various ways) for 3-5 days per week, semi-GtG style. I wonder if starting the FPP ladders at (5,4,3,2,1) might be better, seeing that I can hit 5x5 with long rests at least 2-3 days per week?

That's the key detail, "long rests" If you keep the rest to medium at most, do the FPP plan twice a week, volume will build up over time but you get to practice those solid reps.

By the time you test, you will have surely set a new PR but at a safer pace

 

[Torin]

It got my pull-up max to 50 in a row a few years back

That is insane.
I may try progressive range of motion on some of my ancillary work (things like pull-ups and dips)

 

[Period]

That is insane.
I may try progressive range of motion on some of my ancillary work (things like pull-ups and dips)

Give it a shot, it's worth it in my experience! I think it's easiest to do (logistically) with push-ups, as well as squats and deadlifts if you have a good rack. With pull-ups and dips, you either have to go by feel or get creative with a climbing belt and adjustable straps or something along those lines.

There are two ways to go about it: either take one number of reps and work it all the way to full ROM, or decrease reps as ROM increases. Both work. I would recommend that in either case you pick a number that is currently impossible, but not by too large a margin, and not totally out there. I think it's especially good as a plateau buster.

 

[bluejeff]

Select a height where 10 reps are easy. Do at least one set six days per week (I usually did 3x10, with 3-5 minutes rest). After a week, remove one book (no more than 1" thick, 1/2" may be better). After 6-16 weeks, you should be down all the way. Remember, don't rush, stay with "easy", nit with" grinding".

I’m sitting at a 5RM right now, for my sets to be “easy” I would have to stick with sets of three. My thinking was that I should try and increase reps before increasing depth.

Some have suggested pike push-ups. I spent literally a few years doing those with no translation to hspu. I had been dealing with some funky shoulder mechanics on one side (no injury though, just some weird neck tension). Doing full hspus even at very low reps has not only improved my strength in them, but it has helped the biomechanical issue. I think the pike push-ups weren’t helping because it wasn’t aligning things to get the proper muscles to fire the way I needed.

 

[Period]

I’m sitting at a 5RM right now, for my sets to be “easy” I would have to stick with sets of three. My thinking was that I should try and increase reps before increasing depth.

Some have suggested pike push-ups. I spent literally a few years doing those with no translation to hspu. I had been dealing with some funky shoulder mechanics on one side (no injury though, just some weird neck tension). Doing full hspus even at very low reps has not only improved my strength in them, but it has helped the biomechanical issue. I think the pike push-ups weren’t helping because it wasn’t aligning things to get the proper muscles to fire the way I needed.

Maybe I haven't been clear enough about what progressive range of motion means? It means you place something under your head, so your are moving the full load of your body, but only over a reduced range of motion. Since your muscles are stronger the more they contract, the top ROM is the easiest, the bottom the hardest. If you were only dipping down an inch or two each rep, you could probably do 20 or more reps right now. I am suggesting to find the range of motion where you can do 10 partial reps easily, and.work down from there. That should only take a couple of weeks (as described above) and will be ok for a training phase. Paul Anderson used the same principle to build up to his monster squat, and Bob Peoples used the DIY version (a hole in his backyard,.which he then shoveled full again over time) to work up to his world record deadlift.

As for yor problem with pike pushups, in my experience most people do very lazy pike push-ups. First of all, they put their hands way too far in front of their feet, and then put too much weight on the feet. Try kneeling down, placing the hands right in feont of the knees and then piking up from there without putting the feet back. Ideally, come up on the tips of the big toes, like a ballerina in pointé. This shifts more weight on the hands, and guarantees an almost vertical torso. Of course, moving hands and feet progressively closer together may also be a way of getting stronger.
Same pronciples apply when the feet are elevated. All in all, I think it's rare that someone milks pike push-ups for all they are worth.

 

[bluejeff]

Maybe I haven't been clear enough about what progressive range of motion means? It means you place something under your head, so your are moving the full load of your body, but only over a reduced range of motion. Since your muscles are stronger the more they contract, the top ROM is the easiest, the bottom the hardest. If you were only dipping down an inch or two each rep, you could probably do 20 or more reps right now. I am suggesting to find the range of motion where you can do 10 partial reps easily, and.work down from there. That should only take a couple of weeks (as described above) and will be ok for a training phase. Paul Anderson used the same principle to build up to his monster squat, and Bob Peoples used the DIY version (a hole in his backyard,.which he then shoveled full again over time) to work up to his world record deadlift.

As for yor problem with pike pushups, in my experience most people do very lazy pike push-ups. First of all, they put their hands way too far in front of their feet, and then put too much weight on the feet. Try kneeling down, placing the hands right in feont of the knees and then piking up from there without putting the feet back. Ideally, come up on the tips of the big toes, like a ballerina in pointé. This shifts more weight on the hands, and guarantees an almost vertical torso. Of course, moving hands and feet progressively closer together may also be a way of getting stronger.
Same pronciples apply when the feet are elevated. All in all, I think it's rare that someone milks pike push-ups for all they are worth.

Oh I 100% understand you. I was just trying to communicate that for some reason I’ve never quite gotten like push-ups to feel good on my wonky shoulder. As for form I even got them up to a few floating reps (feet coming off the ground at the bottom), but the neck tightness side effect never really went away. There’s some kind of scapular issue going on that’s gotten better but not 100%. What seemed to help it was taking my feet totally off the ground (a full hspu). Otherwise I would definitely work on pike push-ups more. I think they’re a great exercise.

 

[GovernorSilver]

My latest shoulder injury was caused by elevated feet pike pushup wth accommodating resistance - which is overloading the shoulders and arms on the eccentric, then reducing the load by shifting enough weight back to allow concentric movement.

I don't blame the exercise itself though. My problem was not with the exercise but with my body lacking the necessary preparation - that being higher volume training and the tendon conditioning that comes with it. My connective tissues were simply unable to handle the load. One thing I should done before switching to the AR style was high volume partial pike pushups with feet on floor, or GMB style bent-arm bear for minimum 5-min. sessions, or run through an 8-week hypertrophy C&P program like The Giant or Easy Muscle with the appropriate weight KB.