Kettlebell Indian Clubs and how they helped with my KB swing

[Arvind Ashok]

I wanted to share some learnings from using the Indian clubs. Primarily about how they improved my hinge pattern and ballistics. Maybe this might not be relevant for experienced folks. But I think it could be very valuable for a relative beginner for sure.

Early last year, I started using Indian clubs as part of my warmups and variety days. I simply wanted to do something besides walking, while being low on the intensity scale. My main training plan was Q+D, 3 days of the week. I did a few simple drills with it - the halo, the swing, and the club mill.

What I realised after 3 months was the carry forward from the Indian clubs into my KB ballistics, the swing and the snatch.
Listing a few down:

• Working on the hinge pattern and recovery from the previous day's work. The club gently increases the range of motion of my hip hinge and a few 100 hinges on the "off" days left me feeling great for the next day's work.
• My grip strength improved. The awkward grip, especially on the pinky side, helped strengthen a part of my grip.
• Timing improved. I realised there might be such a thing as hinging too late, as well as learning to gently use the arms in the downswing. The club (3-5 kilos) allowed a lot more time and feel, something which I could not get even with light bells (albeit 10/12 kilos.)
• The lockout. Hip snap is one thing but I never fully "got" freezing the bell up top. But the club made that rather simple, as stopping the club at the end of the upswing required an extra bit of contraction and tension.
• Anti-shrug and shoulder position. Lats at the bottom was hit or miss for me and these gentle reps gave me a lot of valuable practice.
• The weight shift to the heel. While this one's obvious, the club adds just a tad bit more time to the downswing. This increased my range of motion and gave me a bit more time (while working with a light weight) to feel the shift from balanced to heel and back.

I wrote a post about it last year (some videos and more details/context on the learnings).
Now, about 9 months later, I feel all these learnings are still relevant and the club is a tool in my toolbox not just for the purposes it is designed for but for my KB ballistics as well.

I wanted to share it with the community here and see if anyone had more experience with this. Thanks for reading.

 

[TedM]

Just coming across this now...

How easy is it to start with a club, and how many different movements do you do?

I'm pretty new here... right now, I'm going through Giant with single 12kg bell, alternating 4 weeks Giant/2 weeks 2H A&A swings w/32kg.
Off days - OS mostly.
Trail walking several times a week
(I'm 63, 80kg)

Out of curiosity, what kind of club do you use? A traditional wooden one or modern version? (If modern, is there a difference?)

Thanks!

 

[jayjo]

Just coming across this now...

How easy is it to start with a club, and how many different movements do you do?

I'm pretty new here... right now, I'm going through Giant with single 12kg bell, alternating 4 weeks Giant/2 weeks 2H A&A swings w/32kg.
Off days - OS mostly.
Trail walking several times a week
(I'm 63, 80kg)

Out of curiosity, what kind of club do you use? A traditional wooden one or modern version? (If modern, is there a difference?)

Thanks!

If you are interested in Clubs consider Heavy Clubs or Clubbells. Indian Clubs I believe are 1 to 5 lbs. Heavy Clubs begin at 15 lbs. and go from there with experienced trainers using 45 lbs. clubs or heavier. I am working right how with 25 lbs. I still use Kettlebells but most of my workouts are with Heavy Clubs. Look at Mark Wildman on youtube.

 

[mvikred]

Indian Clubs I believe are 1 to 5 lbs.

Don't think thats necessarily true. The way you are interpreting is from what the 'western world' has termed as Indian clubs which are mostly used for restoration and are light in weight. The clubs and maces used in India, even till date are not limited to 5lbs and I've seen heavy club swings being done in a few of the 'traditional' wrestling gyms. These clubs are typically made of wood and depending on the shape and region are referred to by different names (karlakattai, jori, etc.). Even though the names are different and the designs slightly different, it is consistent in one aspect - offset weight.

 

[jayjo]

Don't think thats necessarily true. The way you are interpreting is from what the 'western world' has termed as Indian clubs which are mostly used for restoration and are light in weight. The clubs and maces used in India, even till date are not limited to 5lbs and I've seen heavy club swings being done in a few of the 'traditional' wrestling gyms. These clubs are typically made of wood and depending on the shape and region are referred to by different names (karlakattai, jori, etc.). Even though the names are different and the designs slightly different, it is consistent in one aspect - offset weight.

You are right. But I live in the Western World and I am comfortable with its cis-gendered, hetero-normative, capitalist, colonialist, patriarchy.

 

[Simon L]

‘Indian clubs’ are typically used in pairs and are light. The focus is more on speed and complexity of movement. The mill is probably the ‘centre of the universe.’ Paul wolkowinksi has lots of content in this realm. These are typically used for rehab/prehab.

Heavy clubs/steel clubs are heavier 5lbs+ can be used with one hand or two and are programmed differently. As mentioned mark Wildman has a lot of content on this.

I enjoy both and find them complimentary. I enjoy the challenge of mastering new patterns with Indian clubs while it takes little toll on my recovery.

Heavy clubs I program as strength training with the goal to gradually increase the weight.

However it sounds like the OP has been doing swings with their clubs which is a little different.

 

[John sardos]

I have found light club swinging as good learning tool for the KB Swing as well. I dont think you neccisarily need clubs. I have used 2.5 or 5 lb plates as a substitute in learning the swing.

If interested in getting into clubs I would start with 1lb indian clubs. That is cheapest and best tool to learn if this is somthing that interest you. Then you can go down the rabbit hole of heavier clubs and steel maces. A step further would be more traditional into your Jori, and karlakattai imho.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

I wanted to share some learnings from using the Indian clubs. Primarily about how they improved my hinge pattern and ballistics. Maybe this might not be relevant for experienced folks. But I think it could be very valuable for a relative beginner for sure.

Early last year, I started using Indian clubs as part of my warmups and variety days. I simply wanted to do something besides walking, while being low on the intensity scale. My main training plan was Q+D, 3 days of the week. I did a few simple drills with it - the halo, the swing, and the club mill.

What I realised after 3 months was the carry forward from the Indian clubs into my KB ballistics, the swing and the snatch.
Listing a few down:

• Working on the hinge pattern and recovery from the previous day's work. The club gently increases the range of motion of my hip hinge and a few 100 hinges on the "off" days left me feeling great for the next day's work.
• My grip strength improved. The awkward grip, especially on the pinky side, helped strengthen a part of my grip.
• Timing improved. I realised there might be such a thing as hinging too late, as well as learning to gently use the arms in the downswing. The club (3-5 kilos) allowed a lot more time and feel, something which I could not get even with light bells (albeit 10/12 kilos.)
• The lockout. Hip snap is one thing but I never fully "got" freezing the bell up top. But the club made that rather simple, as stopping the club at the end of the upswing required an extra bit of contraction and tension.
• Anti-shrug and shoulder position. Lats at the bottom was hit or miss for me and these gentle reps gave me a lot of valuable practice.
• The weight shift to the heel. While this one's obvious, the club adds just a tad bit more time to the downswing. This increased my range of motion and gave me a bit more time (while working with a light weight) to feel the shift from balanced to heel and back.

I wrote a post about it last year (some videos and more details/context on the learnings).
Now, about 9 months later, I feel all these learnings are still relevant and the club is a tool in my toolbox not just for the purposes it is designed for but for my KB ballistics as well.

I wanted to share it with the community here and see if anyone had more experience with this. Thanks for reading.

Very awesome.. hopefully we can chat up about this in person next time I'm in your side fo the world

 

[TedM]

To be clear about my interest: I'm actually looking for something to use as a self defense tool, and I thought if I'm proficient with a lighter club, I can just stick it in my small backpack when going on a walk or whatever and have an implement I am accustomed to using with speed and power, should the need arise...

 

[Arvind Ashok]

@Simon L , @Brett Jones and Gray Cook's (old) videos are of the light and fast type you are talking about. But as other posters have remarked, clubs vary in their shapes and sizes and usage.

And after playing with them for a few months, I realised there was a lot of complementary stuff to the ballistics I was doing. Medium load, high power, low-medium volume on the KB ballistics complemented by light load (3-5 kg clubs), low power, high volume.

@Mark Limbaga Yes sir, most certainly!