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PlanStrong/BuiltStrong Jay vincent H.I.T.

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JONJAYWRIGHT@HOTMAIL

JONJAYWRIGHT@HOTMAIL

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Been listening to Jay vincent last month or so and been doing good high intensity training with slow reps .
Seems to be working at moment not to long if it will take me in the right direction.

I started training with the slow reps due to elbow inflammation etc from doing Brazilian jiujitsu.

The slow reps seem to be better for my joints .

Anyone else got any long term results from this?
 
His claims seem to be quite immodest. His method (or the method that he has found), seem to be achieving almost everything anyone would like to achieve. There are no qualifications, no advantages or disadvantages. Is this realistic ? All the weightlifters and powerlifters in the world are just very very stupid since they could have achieved much better results had they just used Jay Vincent´s method.

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I have a friend who is applying the Jay Vincent method, and he adores him. He is always stiff a couple of days after a workout. Two days after my friend had done a Jay Vincent leg workout I convinced him to try some easy stair-running with me, and after one run his legs started cramping. My friend is quite fit, so that says something about the intensity of the Jay Vincent workouts. It also says something about the stiffness and the fatigue you probably have to be willing to suffer in order to make this system work.

My friend also says that he sometimes sleeps a bit worse, because he feels so pumped up after the workout (and my friend is not training at night).

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My friend had been doing this for one or two months. He likes it. It saves him time. Not sure how much muscle mass he has gained or if he has become any stronger. But he likes it and he has not been injured yet.

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His method seems to be everything that Pavel and Strongfirst are against. Pavel says you should 1) start relatively quickly to train with heavy weights, 2) explosive movements are good for you, 3) always leave a rep in the tank. 4) Volume is good. 5) Aim to become stronger. 6) Too much and too often lactic acid or H+ in the muscles is not good.


Jay Vincent says that 1) You should train with lighter weights. 2) Always use slow movements. 3) go to failure on every set. 4) You don't need volume. 5) Not sure what he is aiming at, maybe bigger muscles ? 6) lactic acid and H+ in every session and on every exercise is necessary.
 
On a personal level if looking to improve/rehab chronic joint issues I’d recommend switching to isometrics. I cannot recommend it enough in that role.

That said, HIT can do a good job for maintenance of existing muscle and can trigger growth in relative beginners. To go beyond that will require some extreme levels of effort and a partner to continue pushing the failure limit. Forcing HIT to do more and more is less efficient than simply using a different approach.

Performing reps slowly has not been proven superior to faster rep movement, nor has training to a gravity-wins failure. I’m not aware of a single piece of research that supports this (what’s available actually refutes the claims) and anecdotal evidence is all over the spectrum. Hardcore HIT proponents like to claim the science proves their POV but it really doesn’t. HIT is time efficient, but the best hypertrophy results come from a higher volume DeLorme inspired approach with faster rep speed.

If you had an extensive load of sport specific work on top of your strength training it would be a (more) valid strategy as you’re training movement speed etc in other ways. If you want your strength training to provide some of that you should choose a different approach.

Bottom line, it could work well for you as a training block. I would not recommend it from personal experience - am certain I’d be told I was doing it wrong.
 
I would really like to use HIT....it appeals to me....but chasing inroad for the sake of it (just so I can say I am pushing to failure) without knowing if it actually works, is a tough sell.
 
Jon Bruney had a program out of DragonDoor called NeuroMuscle (or something like that) and I never would have connected it to HIT until I read the forward by Marty Gallagher. In it, Marty was basically describing HIT when he explained what he liked about Neuromuscular training. Similarly, Marty had a program out for a suspension trainer a few years ago that seemed very similar to HIT.

I really liked NeuroMuscle (and think it's got some seed for greatness in it, even though I've never returned to it) and never did Marty's suspension trainer program, but because of those two (and the likes of Brooks Kubik and Stuart McRoberts) I've got it floating around in the back of my mind that HIT, when done right, can be a pretty effective system.

I think my problem is that I like training too much and don't like taking 4-5 days off to recover.
 
North Coast Miller said:
Yep, and the latest round of HIT proponents seem to pop up following a resurgence of high volume popularity. Maybe its good for keeping people’s feet on the ground re just how little volume is actually needed for reasonable results.
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I've thought of it as a cycle. Doing all volume work eventually desensitizes you to the volume, and you can only do so much; then suddenly, you stumble on to HIT and BOOM you blow up. Then you desensitize to the HIT, and discover volume, and BOOM you blow up. Not sure how accurate that is, but it is how I understand it.
 
If your goal is strength and muscle then one set to failure certainly works and you don't need slow reps or beyond failure effort to make gains although they may help. But so many studies have shown advantages in both strength and muscle from higher volume that the question isn't does HIT work but why would you choose it over more effective options. For my part, I routinely do one set close to failure because my joints don't appreciate higher volume and I like to be in and out of the gym in under 25 minutes (often less). As far as an efficient workout goes I don't think HIT can be beaten but for effectiveness stay in the gym longer and do more sets
 
LukeV said:
If your goal is strength and muscle then one set to failure certainly works and you don't need slow reps or beyond failure effort to make gains although they may help. But so many studies have shown advantages in both strength and muscle from higher volume that the question isn't does HIT work but why would you choose it over more effective options. For my part, I routinely do one set close to failure because my joints don't appreciate higher volume and I like to be in and out of the gym in under 25 minutes (often less). As far as an efficient workout goes I don't think HIT can be beaten but for effectiveness stay in the gym longer and do more sets
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Great post Luke.

My best results were with Dante Trudels DC training, but I was eating like my life depended on it.

I think many of the results are similar, it's often just preference as to how you want to get there.

Richard
 
Have a look at the studies or analyses. Instead of the trendline based on the average or median of the individual responses, have a look at the range of individual responses. There are some massive differences. I have no doubt some people grow very well or better with the HIT approach instead of the high volume approach.

I also agree that a certain degree of variation should be a good idea.
 
Antti said:
Have a look at the studies or analyses. Instead of the trendline based on the average or median of the individual responses, have a look at the range of individual responses. There are some massive differences. I have no doubt some people grow very well or better with the HIT approach instead of the high volume approach.

I also agree that a certain degree of variation should be a good idea.
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I've kind of thought of that as a limitation on scientific studies for guiding training or exercise. If you have an intervention and half the group does great on it, a quarter does horrible, and a quarter does beyond phenomenal, you can't say it that intervention will work or not to an individual (yourself or someone you're coaching); at best you have an "average" starting point that you can adjust up or down. I might not be understanding science right tho.
 
One set each, close to failure, with weight ranging from 10 to 30 reps for:

Dumbbell OHP
Narrow-grip Lat Pull-down
Dumbbell Bench
Seated Row
Tricep Rope Extension
Dumbbell Alternating Hammer Curls

Done usually two to three times weekly but occasionally with modest weight staying away from failure up to 7 times weekly.

That’s my go-to suite for muscle building in the upper body and depending how keen I am I will add sets, rarely do I add exercises but I do switch variations (eg machine rows to barbell rows). If I’m very keen I will split the program into Workout A / Workout B and increase the sets to 5 done close to failure (this is the best muscle building program I’ve ever done).

Due to knee arthritis I’ve been sidelined from lower body exercises most of this year but to be honest I rarely do very much. Usually loaded carries and hill walks with leg presses in the gym one to five hard sets as per the above. For whatever reason my lower body has never needed that much attention.
Ricky01 said:
What is your weekly set up with this style look like Luke?
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LukeV said:
One set each, close to failure, with weight ranging from 10 to 30 reps for:

Dumbbell OHP
Narrow-grip Lat Pull-down
Dumbbell Bench
Seated Row
Tricep Rope Extension
Dumbbell Alternating Hammer Curls

Done usually two to three times weekly but occasionally with modest weight staying away from failure up to 7 times weekly.

That’s my go-to suite for muscle building in the upper body and depending how keen I am I will add sets, rarely do I add exercises but I do switch variations (eg machine rows to barbell rows). If I’m very keen I will split the program into Workout A / Workout B and increase the sets to 5 done close to failure (this is the best muscle building program I’ve ever done).

Due to knee arthritis I’ve been sidelined from lower body exercises most of this year but to be honest I rarely do very much. Usually loaded carries and hill walks with leg presses in the gym one to five hard sets as per the above. For whatever reason my lower body has never needed that much attention.
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Really interesting Luke, thanks for that.

At the moment I am spending a lot of time on breathing work and walking.
Breath work
Walking
And some spinal movements are my daily non negotiables.

AND I move a huge amount through coaching - in the form of movement demo's (I am an Original Strength Instructor, so lots of movement demoing for clients).

Apart from that -
Once a week (or twice a week at an absolute push) of something like....
Session A:
Push variation
Deadlift variation

Session B:
Push variation
Pull variation

Try to keep it simple. If I add too much or push too hard alongside my coaching, it all goes well....until it doesn't (and I am totally wiped).

So each movement is usually one set. Goal is super simple - if I can lift steadily move/lift, with no pause (at any part of the rep) for 60 seconds, then I up the load or increase difficulty of the movement for the next session.

Richard
 
LukeV said:
One set each, close to failure, with weight ranging from 10 to 30 reps for:

Dumbbell OHP
Narrow-grip Lat Pull-down
Dumbbell Bench
Seated Row
Tricep Rope Extension
Dumbbell Alternating Hammer Curls

Done usually two to three times weekly but occasionally with modest weight staying away from failure up to 7 times weekly.

That’s my go-to suite for muscle building in the upper body and depending how keen I am I will add sets, rarely do I add exercises but I do switch variations (eg machine rows to barbell rows). If I’m very keen I will split the program into Workout A / Workout B and increase the sets to 5 done close to failure (this is the best muscle building program I’ve ever done).

Due to knee arthritis I’ve been sidelined from lower body exercises most of this year but to be honest I rarely do very much. Usually loaded carries and hill walks with leg presses in the gym one to five hard sets as per the above. For whatever reason my lower body has never needed that much attention.
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Do you also feel that you become stronger, that is your 1RM in these exercises increases ?
 
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