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Kettlebell Kettlebell Training and Aerobic Capacity: My Case

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barrak

Level 6 Valued Member
My PT prescribed a Conconi test for me which revealed some interesting data points that may interest some readers. It was done on a treadmill, with each speed increment lasting 60 seconds. Readings were recorded off a Polar H10 chest strap monitor.

Thanks to the kettlebell programs I've been doing over the past 4 years, I've maintained my max HR at 172, with a decent anaerobic/lactate threshold at 155 (read at the deflection point in the curve). From this data, my VO2max is very decent for my age group; 40-42 at age 56. (see calculation below the graph)

However, notice the slow speeds and how quickly my HR rises at the start of the test. From what I read online: Aerobic Threshold Pace = 70% of VO2max Pace (7.2 miles/hr) = 5 miles/hr. My PT is not convinced this estimate applies in my case and believes my aerobic threshold is much lower. I'm under strict orders from him to limit my runs to sub 125 HR for several weeks to start building my aerobic capacity.

This is a very humbling prescription. I tried it yesterday for an hour and had to repeatedly slow down to a walk to stay within the target 110-124 HR. My previous "easy" runs, which I started 3 weeks ago, have been in the 125 - 140 HR range.

I'm bringing this all up for the benefit of others like me who neglected/are neglecting training their entire heart rate zone ranges.

I'm also open to suggestions and corrections if I'm grossly misinterpreting my data.

maxHR.JPG

Estimating VO2max using a measured (not estimated) maxHR :
1. Pick a running speed in miles/hour (S) at a 90%+ of maxHR (P). In my case, I chose S = 7.2 at P = 100% = 1
2. Convert speed to meters/minute ==> 26.8 x S
3. Work Vo2 = 26.8 x S x 0.2 + 3.5
4. Vo2max = Work Vo2 / P = ( 26.8 x 7.2 x 0.2 + 3.5 ) / 1 = 42

Reference: https://www.ncsf.org/pdf/ceu/relationship_between_percent_hr_max_and_percent_vo2_max.pdf
 
Thanks for sharing. Doing S&S myself and working on timeless simple I definitely feel like I would need some dedicated steady state cardio to get solid cardio gains.

Can you tell us what kind of KB endurance training you have been doing? Have you ever done something like Al Ciampa endurance protocol or Viking Warrior Conditioning?
 
marvinthemartian said:
Thanks for sharing. Doing S&S myself and working on timeless simple I definitely feel like I would need some dedicated steady state cardio to get solid cardio gains.

Can you tell us what kind of KB endurance training you have been doing? Have you ever done something like Al Ciampa endurance protocol or Viking Warrior Conditioning?
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No kettlebell conditioning programs. The programs I stuck with for 3+ months each were ROP, S&S, heavy sandbag cleans and carries, and now I'm on week 13 of the Giant. Dabbled with Q&D, snatches and mace swings but only for 1-2 months each.
 
How much have you been running lately? I believe non-runners recruit fast twitch muscle fiber even at low intensity, which drives up the heart rate and is less aerobic. It takes a while to get efficient enough at running to make it a good aerobic slow twitch activity. This situation is further exacerbated if carrying excess bodyweight-- fat mass, lean mass, or both.
 
Anna C said:
How much have you been running lately? I believe non-runners recruit fast twitch muscle fiber even at low intensity, which drives up the heart rate and is less aerobic. It takes a while to get efficient enough at running to make it a good aerobic slow twitch activity. This situation is further exacerbated if carrying excess bodyweight-- fat mass, lean mass, or both.
Click to expand...
+1 to all that, and running technique - besides speed, cadence and footwear are affecting my runs. It's a small variable though, and what's Anna is telling here, is probably the biggest factor. I can also tell that A+A type of training benefits the basic cardio ability more, than some glycolytically-inclined activities.
 
Anna C said:
How much have you been running lately? I believe non-runners recruit fast twitch muscle fiber even at low intensity, which drives up the heart rate and is less aerobic. It takes a while to get efficient enough at running to make it a good aerobic slow twitch activity. This situation is further exacerbated if carrying excess bodyweight-- fat mass, lean mass, or both.
Click to expand...
I'm sure it's a factor. I only started running three weeks ago after 3 decades of no running, so I expect I have a lot of inefficiencies . My PT noticed a slight over-striding, though still landing on mid-foot, up and down head bounce, and fists arching towards midline instead of parallel locomotive pattern. Other info: My cadence increased linearly during the test from 160 to 185 and I was running in Xero HFS minimal shoes... no cushioning and no heal rise.

Honestly even walking up a gentle grade kicks my heart rate to 130. To compare with my Giant workouts, here is my chart from last week while doing 9 sets of 8 reps C+P 2x16K. This weight was my 10RM 6 weeks ago... haven't tested since.

Edit: 164 lb at 5'8".

Giant Workout.jpg
 
Anna C said:
How much have you been running lately? I believe non-runners recruit fast twitch muscle fiber even at low intensity, which drives up the heart rate and is less aerobic. It takes a while to get efficient enough at running to make it a good aerobic slow twitch activity. This situation is further exacerbated if carrying excess bodyweight-- fat mass, lean mass, or both.
Click to expand...
Would this apply to cycling also?
 
barrak said:
I'm sure it's a factor. I only started running three weeks ago after 3 decades of no running, so I expect I have a lot of inefficiencies . My PT noticed a slight over-striding, though still landing on mid-foot, up and down head bounce, and fists arching towards midline instead of parallel locomotive pattern. Other info: My cadence increased linearly during the test from 160 to 185 and I was running in Xero HFS minimal shoes... no cushioning and no heal rise.

Honestly even walking up a gentle grade kicks my heart rate to 130. To compare with my Giant workouts, here is my chart from last week while doing 9 sets of 8 reps C+P 2x16K. This weight was my 10RM 6 weeks ago... haven't tested since.

Edit: 164 lb at 5'8".

View attachment 14191
Click to expand...
There is big difference between interval (fast or slow) and steady state workouts in terms of their effects on the aerobic capacity. Rest intervals between HR peaks change everything, as you probably already noticed. Running MAF style is quite challenging at the beginning, and it's true, you will have to walk a lot of the time. Don't despair, it changes after 10 - 15 sessions. One think I have found to make this faster - the session should last at least an hour. Stick to your prescribed HR, even if it feels silly. The effect will spill over to KB training. That's my personal experience.
 
barrak said:
I'm sure it's a factor. I only started running three weeks ago after 3 decades of no running, so I expect I have a lot of inefficiencies . My PT noticed a slight over-striding, though still landing on mid-foot, up and down head bounce, and fists arching towards midline instead of parallel locomotive pattern. Other info: My cadence increased linearly during the test from 160 to 185 and I was running in Xero HFS minimal shoes... no cushioning and no heal rise.

Honestly even walking up a gentle grade kicks my heart rate to 130. To compare with my Giant workouts, here is my chart from last week while doing 9 sets of 8 reps C+P 2x16K. This weight was my 10RM 6 weeks ago... haven't tested since.

Edit: 164 lb at 5'8".
Click to expand...

I can relate. I'm similar size and my HR responds the same as you describe. FWIW, I think your HR recovery indicates good things about both your fitness and your heart. Many assessors are so used to measuring everything by running response they might not see it that way. But, we can't be good at everything, and we can always get better at what we're not good at! Just think of it as an opportunity for "newbie gains."

Joeyboy said:
Would this apply to cycling also?
Click to expand...

Not nearly as much - for two reasons. The first is economy or efficiency, which is much more of a factor with running. The tissues and tendons gain elasticity over years of running, so a lot of force production in a good runner comes from what I think of as a "rubber band" effect. A pedal stroke on a bike makes much less use of this. The second is bodyweight, which affects the effort to move the body directly than rolling on wheels. I currently consider myself a decent cyclist and terrible runner, so I speak from my own experience! I have been a much better runner in years past.

A few older threads with some great discussion about these sort of things:




 
6was9 said:
There is big difference between interval (fast or slow) and steady state workouts in terms of their effects on the aerobic capacity. Rest intervals between HR peaks change everything, as you probably already noticed. Running MAF style is quite challenging at the beginning, and it's true, you will have to walk a lot of the time. Don't despair, it changes after 10 - 15 sessions. One think I have found to make this faster - the session should last at least an hour. Stick to your prescribed HR, even if it feels silly. The effect will spill over to KB training. That's my personal experience.
Click to expand...
Good to hear. I'll stick to it, extend my sessions from 60 to 90 minutes, up my frequency from 3 to 4-5 run days per week, and retest 5 weeks later. My PT seems to agree with you as he promises me some serious newbie gains by the end of the summer if I strictly stay below 125 throughout.
 
You could incorporate a speed or tempo workout once a week, to work on your running economy at faster paces as well. I solely focused of maf style running a couple times a week with kettlebells over the winter and i found that my speed had dwindled quite a bit. I’m a month into marathon training now and feel like I’m just getting it back.
 
What was the catalyst to doing this test? What made you decide to start running again?
 
LarryB said:
You could incorporate a speed or tempo workout once a week, to work on your running economy at faster paces as well. I solely focused of maf style running a couple times a week with kettlebells over the winter and i found that my speed had dwindled quite a bit. I’m a month into marathon training now and feel like I’m just getting it back.
Click to expand...
I have no speed to preserve at the moment and I'm currently restricted to MAF running to build my aerobic base. I'm also drilling multi-directional band exercises to build leg strength and mobility.

Considering I haven't run consistently for decades and my recent ditching of cushioned shoes in favor of minimalist sandals and shoes, my feet need some time to adapt and toughen up before adding new stressors.
 
BrianCF said:
What was the catalyst to doing this test? What made you decide to start running again?
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Good question! I blame my boy and his PT.

I recently hired a sports physical therapist to help fix my 11th grader's biomechanics and treat his flat-feet and painful plantar fasciitis. My boy has been too aggressive with his competitive spirit. He was scoring new running PRs in almost every school meet over the past two years and he treated every team workout as a competition... until he crashed and burned last April.

On Day one, this PT (a former competitive ultra-marathoner himself) observed my boy's flat, pronated and pain stricken feet, as well as his heavily padded shoes and said to him: "first, I want you out of these shoes immediately and permanently; and second, I'll have you running barefoot and pain-free within three weeks." Then he turned on me and said: "You too have collapsed arches and pronated ankles. You better attend every one of your boy's sessions and mimic all the exercises I'll be putting him through."

Two weeks later, my boy came home from the school track with a sheepish grin and half a dozen blisters after running barefoot around the track for 40 minutes. A week after that, I found myself running in Xero sandals and enjoying it!

As for the Conconi test, it was meant to establish a baseline for my current (non-existent) aerobic capacity, to compare against as I progress with my MAF running over the next 3 months.
 
barrak said:
I have no speed to preserve at the moment and I'm currently restricted to MAF running to build my aerobic base. I'm also drilling multi-directional band exercises to build leg strength and mobility.

Considering I haven't run consistently for decades and my recent ditching of cushioned shoes in favor of minimalist sandals and shoes, my feet need some time to adapt and toughen up before adding new stressors.
Click to expand...
I hear ya, walk before you run and all. Careful logging serious miles in your xero’s right away too. Maybe get a cushioned run in every other run. Especially if your are hitting the pavement. I can see the minimalists being awesome in trails, but i ended up straining a ligament in my foot/calf last summer training exclusively in xero’s. I found altra running shoes to be a nice compromise since they have a foot shape, zero drop, and some cushioning as well. Good luck to you! Oh ya, maybe try listening to someone talk about the biomechanics of running while running. I had a revelation in my form listening to a foot and ankle lecture.
 
LarryB said:
I hear ya, walk before you run and all. Careful logging serious miles in your xero’s right away too. Maybe get a cushioned run in every other run. Especially if your are hitting the pavement. I can see the minimalists being awesome in trails, but i ended up straining a ligament in my foot/calf last summer training exclusively in xero’s. I found altra running shoes to be a nice compromise since they have a foot shape, zero drop, and some cushioning as well. Good luck to you! Oh ya, maybe try listening to someone talk about the biomechanics of running while running. I had a revelation in my form listening to a foot and ankle lecture.
Click to expand...

Really appreciate the pointers. Luckily, I have no running history to speak of so I don't have the issue of needing to transition gradually from regular to minimalist footwear. Also, months of primal squats practice have helped establish decent ankle mobility. Still, I had some foot inflammation after my first very short run, and only this week did I get our PT's permission to ramp up my walk/run volume to the 15-20 miles/per week range.

I didn't look at the Altras, but did recently get a Xero HFS for my MAF runs and a Vivobarefoot Trail FG for mountain trails. Sandals for everything else except barefoot at home. My daughter said "you are now a true Boulder native!"

I'm rediscovering my feet and am seriously enjoying the tactile sensation when walking barefoot outdoors. It's like I've been wearing earmuffs forever and I suddenly took them off and started hearing all the beautiful forest sounds.
 
barrak said:
Really appreciate the pointers. Luckily, I have no running history to speak of so I don't have the issue of needing to transition gradually from regular to minimalist footwear. Also, months of primal squats practice have helped establish decent ankle mobility. Still, I had some foot inflammation after my first very short run, and only this week did I get our PT's permission to ramp up my walk/run volume to the 15-20 miles/per week range.

I didn't look at the Altras, but did recently get a Xero HFS for my MAF runs and a Vivobarefoot Trail FG for mountain trails. Sandals for everything else except barefoot at home. My daughter said "you are now a true Boulder native!"

I'm rediscovering my feet and am seriously enjoying the tactile sensation when walking barefoot outdoors. It's like I've been wearing earmuffs forever and I suddenly took them off and started hearing all the beautiful forest sounds.
Click to expand...
I may have accidently ended up with barefoot style sandals.
Basically the soles fell off my cheap sandals years ago so it's just the hard foam padding.

What do these barefoot sandals feel like when walking in?

For example with my cheap sandals if you step on a sharp rock you feel it & I have had to stop in order to pick out the stones stuck in the foam before.
 
Cearball said:
I may have accidently ended up with barefoot style sandals.
Basically the soles fell off my cheap sandals years ago so it's just the hard foam padding.

What do these barefoot sandals feel like when walking in?

For example with my cheap sandals if you step on a sharp rock you feel it & I have had to stop in order to pick out the stones stuck in the foam before.
Click to expand...
If you walk barefoot enough, you'll develop your own natural soles! I'm not that minimalist though.

Xero Z-Trail sandals have thin but stiff soles. I have no concern for small sharp rocks wearing them. You'll walk awkwardly in them on pavement, however, until you adapt with softer cat-like treading.

You will feel small sharp rocks wearing the Xero HFS shoes, but they are a dream for road and dirt trail running.
 
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