Kettlebell Learning to Snatch

[Steve Freides]

@Shawn90, best just to work on technique until that's solid before you start thinking about days of the week, sets, reps, and the like, IMO.

You could post a video - you've got at least 3 SFG's who've responded thus far. Or work with someone in person locally or long-distance via FaceTime/Skype/Hangouts/etc.

Here's a suggestion - start with no more than 5 reps at a time, fewer if you need, and put yourself on the clock: on the even-numbered minutes, snatch left, and on the odd-numbered minutes, snatch right. I recently did a half-hour of this with a weight that's only half my best snatch weight, and that's a weight I can snatch for 20+ reps per hand so doing 5's really let me keep the focus on form. You need practice on the drop, so do at least 2 reps at a time.

-S-

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Something I have observed with those who have struggles with snatches

1. Try to beat the bell to the punch so they and up using their arms and shoulders vs finishing the hip snap and driving their feet through the floor

2. Punch too late so they end up banging their wrists

3. Have a loopy arc, also bang their wrists vs understanding the snatch is an expression of upward force

I'll stop here for now as to avoid overloading you with info

 

[wespeini]

Thank you very much.

 

[Im out]

Yesterday I did my 22th session of snatches. I believe they definitely improve over time. My ''swing-snatch'' is turning more into a highpull snatch. I used to have issues on the drop but I manage to progressively keep the elbow closer to the body on the drop. I did 8 repeats of 5 reps with 24kg, and added speed and power to them as they felt ''easy'' Followed up by 12 repeats of 3 reps with 28kg. Which felt great. I didn't use my HR monitor, only monitored my breathing. No rushing, no beating up the body. Today I don't feel beat up either.

 

[DuncanGB]

@Shawn90, best just to work on technique until that's solid before you start thinking about days of the week, sets, reps, and the like, IMO.

You could post a video - you've got at least 3 SFG's who've responded thus far. Or work with someone in person locally or long-distance via FaceTime/Skype/Hangouts/etc.

Here's a suggestion - start with no more than 5 reps at a time, fewer if you need, and put yourself on the clock: on the even-numbered minutes, snatch left, and on the odd-numbered minutes, snatch right. I recently did a half-hour of this with a weight that's only half my best snatch weight, and that's a weight I can snatch for 20+ reps per hand so doing 5's really let me keep the focus on form. You need practice on the drop, so do at least 2 reps at a time.

-S-

Hardly ever register to online forums - lone-wolf lurking being my usual MO; however, simply feel compelled to express gratitude for all I have started to learn since finding StrongFirst

This thread in particular encapsulates my experience and journey so far hence first post here:

In short, 51 yr-young Englishman permanently-resident in Tokyo -

- the Rugby World Cup Japan and festive season had left me in worst condition of an active and healthy life up to then - beer-gut, red-faced, high blood pressure concerns, so in January resolved to really do something about it...

... this led me to the interview Tim Ferris did with Pavel - he had me at the breakfast soundcheck, but what really put the hook in me was his mention of "anti-glycolytic training" - researching that was revelatory and led me to SF and starting S&S

In two months I have gone from being unable to swing 16kg 1H without forearm discomfort to making 24kg 1H pop and float 1H for 8 reps L & R. 2H 32kg swings are also crisp and powerful for 10 reps w accelerated eccentric

Learned TGU from scratch and now able to own 16kg 1L & 1R x 5

And now thanks to this thread, and Hec's YouTube snatch tutorials I am able to snatch 16kg alternating L & R for 5 reps EMOM up to 20 repeats - I am now addicted to snatching

Really enjoying this hybrid of S&S and A&A training and looking much healthier according to my wife. Subjectively feeling much better all round - stronger physically, mentally more centered and emotionally calmer

I would especially like to thank Steve Freides, Anna C., and ZenMeister Motz for their always instructive, informative, and enlightening posts

 

[WxHerk]

Welcome aboard @DuncanGB !! It sounds as if you have charted a terrific course and have a strong wind in your sails..good work, mate!!

 

[DuncanGB]

Cheers WxHerk!

Now wrestling with the jump from 16 to 24kg for the snatch (and TGU)

Which would be the most effective approach: continue getting in volume at 16kg and practicing with 24kg singles or is it well-worth buying a 20kg bell to help manage the transition?

 

[guardian7]

I've done a few months of ROP with 24kg, and I've done Phase 1 and 2 of KB strong with 24kg. I've done timeless S&S with 28kg SW/ 36kg TGU a few years ago. I've done a mixture of C&P / C&J with double 26kg and HEAVY farmer walks ( double bw ) last year, working up to 140 Reps per session. Massive Strength and muscle gains there.

But I never bothered to do snatches. They are kind of scary.

Last wednesday I just tried a few snatches with 24kg. The bell goes up. I like it. Ofc. I'm bad at the drop. So I bring it back down as you would with a C&P negative. Overall I think it went well. Staying at 3 to 5 reps per set. Single bell of course.

The next 2 days I had really REALLY sore Trapezius muscles. My shoulders felt worked. My legs felt worked, especially the backside. Of course my grip and forearms felt worked !

I like to spent as least time on my sessions, since I have a very dynamic work schedule. Plus evening school. The session I had wednesday made me feel how complete the Snatch actually is. I might even understand why it is the ULTRA minimalist exercise in Q&D.

So I like to work on snatches. I've been re-reading the Snatch part of ROP, and re-read the progression of KB Strong. I noticed how much emphasis there is on the High Pull. Since I never really worked the High Pull I tend to do a Swing-Snatch as described in the Big 6 by Geoff. I also noticed a certain statement by Geoff in KB Strong in the Snatch chapter.

'' The DSN, in my opinion, is really just a Double High Pull and a Double Push Press sown together. Literally. "

This is motivating me to work on Snatching.

Starting with the High Pull & Push Press, first with a single bell.

Probably 24kg. I'd work push Presses with double 20, maybe double 24kg.

I regret not learning to snatch earlier. I am still working on it and find the negative difficult as well. What helps seems to treat it even more as practice than other lifts.

 

[WxHerk]

Cheers WxHerk!

Now wrestling with the jump from 16 to 24kg for the snatch (and TGU)

Which would be the most effective approach: continue getting in volume at 16kg and practicing with 24kg singles or is it well-worth buying a 20kg bell to help manage the transition?

You will likely get several different replies and more than a few will be correct as there is definitely more than one way to skin this cat! Personally, I would still snatch the 16kg and practice your 24kg single(s). Then lower your 16kg volume as you add a few more 24kg singles and then 24kg doubles and triples. I personally like triples because you have two shots at consecutive snatches. As you know from the 16kg, the second snatch is different than the initial snatch. Thus, the third snatch gives that extra consecutive snatch where you can correct anything that felt a bit off. I'm not suggesting a triple tomorrow and definitely get your doubles in before tripling. But once you do it once or twice it'll no longer seem ominous..

Yes, a 20kg is an option but it's not a "must have" to transition to the 24kg. Remember, this game is also mental. After you have snatched the 24kg for a little while it is no longer "THE TWENTY FOUR" but just the heavier bell that you snatch.

I, for one, will not be surprised when you're on the forum asking about snatching the 32..

 

[DuncanGB]

Thank you for the great advice and encouragement, WxHerk - much appreciated

Will implement your suggestions and "this game is also mental" shall be my mantra

 

[guardian7]

I've done a few months of ROP with 24kg, and I've done Phase 1 and 2 of KB strong with 24kg. I've done timeless S&S with 28kg SW/ 36kg TGU a few years ago. I've done a mixture of C&P / C&J with double 26kg and HEAVY farmer walks ( double bw ) last year, working up to 140 Reps per session. Massive Strength and muscle gains there.

But I never bothered to do snatches. They are kind of scary.

Last wednesday I just tried a few snatches with 24kg. The bell goes up. I like it. Ofc. I'm bad at the drop. So I bring it back down as you would with a C&P negative. Overall I think it went well. Staying at 3 to 5 reps per set. Single bell of course.

The next 2 days I had really REALLY sore Trapezius muscles. My shoulders felt worked. My legs felt worked, especially the backside. Of course my grip and forearms felt worked !

I like to spent as least time on my sessions, since I have a very dynamic work schedule. Plus evening school. The session I had wednesday made me feel how complete the Snatch actually is. I might even understand why it is the ULTRA minimalist exercise in Q&D.

So I like to work on snatches. I've been re-reading the Snatch part of ROP, and re-read the progression of KB Strong. I noticed how much emphasis there is on the High Pull. Since I never really worked the High Pull I tend to do a Swing-Snatch as described in the Big 6 by Geoff. I also noticed a certain statement by Geoff in KB Strong in the Snatch chapter.

'' The DSN, in my opinion, is really just a Double High Pull and a Double Push Press sown together. Literally. "

This is motivating me to work on Snatching.

Starting with the High Pull & Push Press, first with a single bell.

Probably 24kg. I'd work push Presses with double 20, maybe double 24kg.

There was a great post on Strongfirst facebook the other day.



It shows how the lower body movement is the same across all balistics. There is a tendency for beginners to "arm" the snatch up.

This article covers the same info.

The SFG Clock—A Guide for the Swing, Clean, and Snatch | StrongFirst

Do you have a clear picture of where the kettlebell should be going in the swing, clean or snatch? The SFG Clock will show you the way.

www.strongfirst.com

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Work o one arm swinging to roughly shoulder height the 24kg and really work on feeling the float..

When you know and feel the bell is almost weightless, you know you can snatch it.

 

[DuncanGB]

@guardian7 - many thanks for sharing

"No matter the destination, the engine should operate the same. Let the hips be your engine, and your arm be your steering wheel."

The SFG Clock 5-8-1-12 snatch

Great stuff

 

[DuncanGB]

You will likely get several different replies and more than a few will be correct as there is definitely more than one way to skin this cat!

Personally, I would still snatch the 16kg and practice your 24kg single(s). Then lower your 16kg volume as you add a few more 24kg singles and then 24kg doubles and triples.

I personally like triples because you have two shots at consecutive snatches. As you know from the 16kg, the second snatch is different than the initial snatch. Thus, the third snatch gives that extra consecutive snatch where you can correct anything that felt a bit off. I'm not suggesting a triple tomorrow and definitely get your doubles in before tripling. But once you do it once or twice it'll no longer seem ominous..
Yes, a 20kg is an option but it's not a "must have" to transition to the 24kg. Remember, this game is also mental. After you have snatched the 24kg for a little while it is no longer "THE TWENTY FOUR" but just the heavier bell that you snatch.

I, for one, will not be surprised when you're on the forum asking about snatching the 32..

Well, just really wanted to thank you again for helping me get a lot closer to what no longer seems that impossible eventuality

Started skinning that cat your way today:

Step 1 - warmed up with 3 repeats of 16kg 5R & 5L
Step 2 - then 24kg 1H swings and single snatches, R then L
Step 3 - went "mental" and straight into practicing triples: 5-8-1-12, 8-1-12, 8-1-12-8-5 on the SFG clock, again R then L
Step 4 - put myself on the clock for 10 mins EMOM 3R, 3L

I now understand why you like triples, especially when it comes to "taming the arc" from 12 to 8:
Motzilla's cues to "lead with your elbow"; "reconnect your upper arm to your torso asap; "slam the bell down into the hike, a fast eccentric" are gold for setting up for the next snatch

I really like the hammer grip, thumb forward at 45- degree angle for slamming the bell and park it that way too
I now start both snatches and 1H swings with bell handle pointed that way in the set-up for the hike, gripping the handle where its nearest to me
I feel like my shoulder is somehow "screwed in" from the get-go and throughout the movement that way

Just want to thank you again for the great advice and encouragement for skinning that darn cat - "THE TWENTY-FOUR" is now closer to being "the twenty-four" in my snatching adventure

 

[WxHerk]

Step 1 - warmed up with 3 repeats of 16kg 5R & 5L
Step 2 - then 24kg 1H swings and single snatches, R then L
Step 3 - went "mental" and straight into practicing triples: 5-8-1-12, 8-1-12, 8-1-12-8-5 on the SFG clock, again R then L
Step 4 - put myself on the clock for 10 mins EMOM 3R, 3L

I now understand why you like triples, especially when it comes to "taming the arc" from 12 to 8:
Motzilla's cues to "lead with your elbow"; "reconnect your upper arm to your torso asap; "slam the bell down into the hike, a fast eccentric" are gold for setting up for the next snatch

I really like the hammer grip, thumb forward at 45- degree angle for slamming the bell and park it that way too
I now start both snatches and 1H swings with bell handle pointed that way in the set-up for the hike, gripping the handle where its nearest to me
I feel like my shoulder is somehow "screwed in" from the get-go and throughout the movement that way

Just want to thank you again for the great advice and encouragement for skinning that darn cat - "THE TWENTY-FOUR" is now closer to being "the twenty-four" in my snatching adventure

Excellent work!! Yes, you are right at the 24 being...the 24. Well done!!

It's great to read you are following @Harald Motz illa's cues. He and @Anna C are phenomenal at breaking it down in their words to provide an even clearer roadmap.

Feeling your shoulder "screwed in" is vital. That with finding your best grip has set you up for a long, successful road.

You are more than welcome, it is my absolute pleasure to have helped in any way.

 

[DuncanGB]

Excellent work!! Yes, you are right at the 24 being...the 24. Well done!!

It's great to read you are following @Harald Motz illa's cues. He and @Anna C are phenomenal at breaking it down in their words to provide an even clearer roadmap.

Feeling your shoulder "screwed in" is vital. That with finding your best grip has set you up for a long, successful road.

You are more than welcome, it is my absolute pleasure to have helped in any way.

Cheers again @WxHerk!

@Anna C and @Harald Motz - their videos are also phenomenally inspiring

 

[DuncanGB]

Work o one arm swinging to roughly shoulder height the 24kg and really work on feeling the float..

When you know and feel the bell is almost weightless, you know you can snatch it.

I have also just learned that when you can snatch 24kg A&A 5L 5R for 10 consecutive repeats, you are ready to start swinging 32kg 1-handed, 8L 8R

Snatching may not be too kind on the hands but it sure does seem to develop grip-strength and fast

 

[Keep Lifting]

Anything Anna and Harold say, do that. Pay close attention to Harold's advice on slamming the bell into the hike position from the top. This idea of pulling the bell from the top and throwing it between your legs will help you get through the "fear" of just letting it drop and it will also help to drive the hips back deep, which will get you moving properly and with tons of power. good luck!

 

[DuncanGB]

Anything Anna and Harold say, do that. Pay close attention to Harold's advice on slamming the bell into the hike position from the top. This idea of pulling the bell from the top and throwing it between your legs will help you get through the "fear" of just letting it drop and it will also help to drive the hips back deep, which will get you moving properly and with tons of power. good luck!

HarAld: Body English - contract the glutes and bend at the knees to "make space" for the downward path of the bell


Australian Shepherd in your photo? If so, mine's a black tri-color too - lovely dog!

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

This idea of pulling the bell from the top and throwing it between your legs will help you get through the "fear" of just letting it drop...

And if your grip strength isn't quite up to it, will help you throw it through a wall. HAH!!!!
Don't ask me how I know this but suffice to say I got lucky and there was enough room for a couple bounces and no real harm done.