Looking for Input - Kettlebells, Sandbag and 531 - 5 Days a week

[KingBeans]

During COVID I fell in love with Kettlebell training. Before that I had focused on 531, which I also enjoyed very much.

I recently bought a atlas-style sandbag and love it! Until now, I've been working out with kettlebells M-F every morning at home and doing barbell lifts here and there at the gym (there is a full gym where I work). I have been loving this.

What I would like to do is continue with my KB work but be more focused and regular with my barbell lifts. I have access to the gym MWF. So my idea is...

Monday AM - 5x5 Double KB C&P, Rows/Pull-Ups
Monday PM - Bench Press 531

Tuesday AM - Unilateral leg work, Swings

Wednesday AM - 10x5 Snatch
Wednesday PM - Deadlift 531

Thursday AM - Unilateral press work, rows/chin-ups

Friday AM - 5x5 Dbl Front Squats, Swings
Friday PM - Squats 531


So my idea is to keep the kettlebell work pretty simple on MWF and focus on single sided skill stuff on Tuesday and Thursday.

I'm not going to do 531 Overhead Press since I so enough vertical pressing at home.

My 531 work will be cut and dry, no BBB or Joker. Maybe some cable rows before Bench Press but no other accessories unless I have a lot of time to kill.

I only have access to my kettlebells and sandbag at home. Only have access to barbells at the gym.

I am looking for input where I can fit in a few sets of sandbag presses or bearhug squats or something in a way that wouldn't be redundant considering the rest of the work being done.

Also looking for general thoughts and opinions about the arrangement, frequency etc.

Thank you!

 

[John K]

During COVID I fell in love with Kettlebell training. Before that I had focused on 531, which I also enjoyed very much.

I recently bought a atlas-style sandbag and love it! Until now, I've been working out with kettlebells M-F every morning at home and doing barbell lifts here and there at the gym (there is a full gym where I work). I have been loving this.

What I would like to do is continue with my KB work but be more focused and regular with my barbell lifts. I have access to the gym MWF. So my idea is...

Monday AM - 5x5 Double KB C&P, Rows/Pull-Ups
Monday PM - Bench Press 531

Tuesday AM - Unilateral leg work, Swings

Wednesday AM - 10x5 Snatch
Wednesday PM - Deadlift 531

Thursday AM - Unilateral press work, rows/chin-ups

Friday AM - 5x5 Dbl Front Squats, Swings
Friday PM - Squats 531


So my idea is to keep the kettlebell work pretty simple on MWF and focus on single sided skill stuff on Tuesday and Thursday.

I'm not going to do 531 Overhead Press since I so enough vertical pressing at home.

My 531 work will be cut and dry, no BBB or Joker. Maybe some cable rows before Bench Press but no other accessories unless I have a lot of time to kill.

I only have access to my kettlebells and sandbag at home. Only have access to barbells at the gym.

I am looking for input where I can fit in a few sets of sandbag presses or bearhug squats or something in a way that wouldn't be redundant considering the rest of the work being done.

Also looking for general thoughts and opinions about the arrangement, frequency etc.

Thank you!

I mean, part of me wants to say go ahead and try it, see how it works. However, I don't think that is a good setup. You have two workouts on one day that stress the same thing. While great for recovery, this is awful for performance.

You go into benching with your pushers fatigued.

You go into squatting with your squatters fatigued.

You go into deadlifting with your back and hips and grip fatigued.

Two-a-days are often hard to manage due to cumulative fatigue - but that doesn't mean it can't work.

To simplify my suggestions I'm going to cut a lot out and just look at the main stuff - barbell bench, barbell squat, barbell deadlift, kettlebell front squat, kettlebell (clean and) press, and snatch. That is 2 press, 2 squat, and 2 pull per week. I would divide them up and separate them out. Leaving your barbell work in its slot...

Mon AM:
Mon PM: Bench
Wed AM:
Wed PM: Deadlift
Fri AM:
Fri PM: Squat

From there I'd plug in kettlebells. For me, it would look like this:

Mon AM: Kettlebell Snatch
Mon PM: Bench
Wed AM: Double Front Squat
Wed PM: Deadlift
Fri AM: Double Clean and Press
Fri PM: Squat

Now whatever extras you want to do, you can do more or less based on how you feel and how it effects your next workout. But this way we've preserved our ability to perform well on all the lifts by spreading out the stressors vs. consolidating the stressors. There is a time for consolidation, but two a days with lifting... I don't think is one of them.

 

[KingBeans]

I mean, part of me wants to say go ahead and try it, see how it works. However, I don't think that is a good setup. You have two workouts on one day that stress the same thing. While great for recovery, this is awful for performance.

You go into benching with your pushers fatigued.

You go into squatting with your squatters fatigued.

You go into deadlifting with your back and hips and grip fatigued.

Two-a-days are often hard to manage due to cumulative fatigue - but that doesn't mean it can't work.

To simplify my suggestions I'm going to cut a lot out and just look at the main stuff - barbell bench, barbell squat, barbell deadlift, kettlebell front squat, kettlebell (clean and) press, and snatch. That is 2 press, 2 squat, and 2 pull per week. I would divide them up and separate them out. Leaving your barbell work in its slot...

Mon AM:
Mon PM: Bench
Wed AM:
Wed PM: Deadlift
Fri AM:
Fri PM: Squat

From there I'd plug in kettlebells. For me, it would look like this:

Mon AM: Kettlebell Snatch
Mon PM: Bench
Wed AM: Double Front Squat
Wed PM: Deadlift
Fri AM: Double Clean and Press
Fri PM: Squat

Now whatever extras you want to do, you can do more or less based on how you feel and how it effects your next workout. But this way we've preserved our ability to perform well on all the lifts by spreading out the stressors vs. consolidating the stressors. There is a time for consolidation, but two a days with lifting... I don't think is one of them.

I guess I don't see much of a overall difference between 3 working sets of 531 directly followed by 3-10 sets of various accessories (or in the case of Big But Boring, the same movement at 5x10) and essentially doing the accessories first followed by the working sets, about 8-9 hours later.

I can't say I've ever felt especially fatigued in the PM hours due to my morning workouts but I do see your point.

I think part of why I've avoided mixing up my days though is because it requires a little more thinking lol

I'm pretty determined to do some kind of kettlebell/sandbag work on Tuesday and Thursday though. Any suggestions for those days, with your concerns in mind?

 

[John K]

Well I've never felt especially fatigued 8-9 hours after my morning workouts but I do see your point. I think I've avoided mixing up my days because it requires more thinking lol

I mean I don’t know what you’re lifting or how but as the session becomes more taxing for you … it can. If every session is super easy sure it probably doesn’t matter. *shrug* in the end if it works for you, rock on.

I'm pretty determined to do some kind of kettlebell/sandbag work on Tuesday and Thursday though. Any suggestions for those days, with your concerns in mind?

Play by ear. If you’re feeling good and what you did last time didn’t negatively impact your subsequent session, you’re probably ok. On the flip side if you did a bunch of sandbag stuff and then your Wednesday deadlifts sucked you should probably do less. Sandbags, swings, getups - all probably ok, just play by ear. I probably wouldn’t add in more pressing or more squatting, but again, if you do and feel great and it doesn’t impact the next day’s work - mazel tov, keep rocking on.

 

[KingBeans]

I mean I don’t know what you’re lifting or how but as the session becomes more taxing for you … it can. If every session is super easy sure it probably doesn’t matter. *shrug* in the end if it works for you, rock on.

Play by ear. If you’re feeling good and what you did last time didn’t negatively impact your subsequent session, you’re probably ok. On the flip side if you did a bunch of sandbag stuff and then your Wednesday deadlifts sucked you should probably do less. Sandbags, swings, getups - all probably ok, just play by ear. I probably wouldn’t add in more pressing or more squatting, but again, if you do and feel great and it doesn’t impact the next day’s work - mazel tov, keep rocking on.

Yeah I hear ya. I hope I'm not coming across argumentative - just trying to think this out. I appreciate you chatting with me on it. I will say my kettlebell workouts (5x5 Dbl 32kg squats for example) are pretty taxing in the moment but not something that sticks with me all day like 315lb back squats or 405 deadlifts would ya know?

 

[John K]

Yeah I hear ya. I hope I'm not coming across argumentative - just trying to think this out. I appreciate you chatting with me on it. I will say my kettlebell workouts (5x5 Dbl 32kg squats for example) are pretty taxing in the moment but not something that sticks with me all day like 315lb back squats or 405 deadlifts would ya know?

Definitely dude, no worries on my end. Likewise, I'm not trying to be a know it all butt.

I know for me, a hard session snatching is fatiguing on my grip, hamstrings, glutes, and back. So the idea of then having a deadlift session 8-12 hrs later is not one I want to entertain. If you finish snatching and are fresh as a daisy, then it probably won't be a big deal deadlifting that night - it won't be, until it is.

Likewise, for clean and pressing, my triceps and shoulders are DEFINITELY fatigued afterwards, so I know my bench will suffer that night.

And with squatting - double front squats usually leave my abs and upper back pretty fatigued. So even if my legs are feeling fresh for squats that night, I'll likely be limiting what I can do by going in pre-fatigued.

The flip side is that by moving things around like I suggested in my first post, you don't really have to give up anything and it'll mean you'll be able to push harder in the morning while still being less fatigued for your Big Lifts, and will have better results on with them too. This way, even if you aren't experiencing any issues now, you set yourself up for success long term.

 

[KingBeans]

Definitely dude, no worries on my end. Likewise, I'm not trying to be a know it all butt.

I know for me, a hard session snatching is fatiguing on my grip, hamstrings, glutes, and back. So the idea of then having a deadlift session 8-12 hrs later is not one I want to entertain. If you finish snatching and are fresh as a daisy, then it probably won't be a big deal deadlifting that night - it won't be, until it is.

Likewise, for clean and pressing, my triceps and shoulders are DEFINITELY fatigued afterwards, so I know my bench will suffer that night.

And with squatting - double front squats usually leave my abs and upper back pretty fatigued. So even if my legs are feeling fresh for squats that night, I'll likely be limiting what I can do by going in pre-fatigued.

The flip side is that by moving things around like I suggested in my first post, you don't really have to give up anything and it'll mean you'll be able to push harder in the morning while still being less fatigued for your Big Lifts, and will have better results on with them too. This way, even if you aren't experiencing any issues now, you set yourself up for success long term.

Yeah I dig it. Gonna give it a shot man, I appreciate it!

 

[John K]

Yeah I dig it. Gonna give it a shot man, I appreciate it!

Hope to hear how it worked in a few months!

 

[silveraw]

I am looking for input where I can fit in a few sets of sandbag presses or bearhug squats or something in a way that wouldn't be redundant considering the rest of the work being done.

Here is what I’ve been doing
3x a week 531
2-3x a week kettlebell/ conditioning
1x a week implement practice (sand bags) after throw in that third conditioning session if you want.

Can’t speak to two a days though. Seems like a lot for me.

 

[solarbear]

I might Swap my AM and PM workouts on MWF. It is typical to do the assistance work after the main lift. As someone mentioned the fatigue and prioritising the 531 lifts.

Where there Might (and I only say might as it could be highly individual) be a problem is Tues and Thurs - Depends a lot on the intensity. The unilateral work might prove problematic to your recovery. I'd probably do pull-ups and Swings both days if you find you're not making the gains you'd like.

 

[KingBeans]

I might Swap my AM and PM workouts on MWF. It is typical to do the assistance work after the main lift. As someone mentioned the fatigue and prioritising the 531 lifts.

Where there Might (and I only say might as it could be highly individual) be a problem is Tues and Thurs - Depends a lot on the intensity. The unilateral work might prove problematic to your recovery. I'd probably do pull-ups and Swings both days if you find you're not making the gains you'd like.

I would prefer to swap them too but I won't have reliable access to the gym in the morning or my home gym in the afternoons, so part of this is just making the most of my time and available equipment.