Kettlebell Medial Epicondylitis (golfers elbow)

[LarryB]

Anyone encounter this in their training? I’m running rop with the 24 and cleaning for every rep. Also snatching/swinging as well as pull ups so i guess I’m putting a lot of strain on my forearm tendons. I admittedly am just starting to look into it and don’t fully understand why it’s irritated.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

I have been battling it for the better part of 6 months, and it only started after adding in pull-ups. It started as tennis elbow, then I switched grips to underhand chip-up grip as that didn't hurt, and it switched to golfer's elbow within a couple weeks. It has never really gone away since, although using a green Theraband Flexbar has helped it tremendously. There were times where opening the door would shoot pain down my arm and it would kind of fail, but now it is more mildly irritating to slightly painful when doing certain grips.

 

[Gravytrain]

had it. bad. Stem cells and PRP fixed it 100%.

just used BPC 157 and some hanging and fixed a niggling shoulder tendonitis issue. FWIW

 

[Greg H]

I used the Kelly Starret Elbow videos on his website. It was super helpful. Also, as stated above, the Theraband is amazing. I used the red one. Took about 30 days and the problem was solved.

I thought my issue was swings but discovered it was really TGU. I wasn’t keeping my wrist straight going from back to elbow and over many months of S&S it caused the elbow issue.

 

[coachnathanwhite]

Anyone encounter this in their training? I’m running rop with the 24 and cleaning for every rep. Also snatching/swinging as well as pull ups so i guess I’m putting a lot of strain on my forearm tendons. I admittedly am just starting to look into it and don’t fully understand why it’s irritated.

It could be attributed to both technique and volume. I’ve had fun with golfer’s elbow in the past and it can definitely put your training on the shelf for a while. My suggestion would be to film yourself and make sure your technique is good. On the clean, your arm needs to be straight before you hinge back and load up the next rep. A slightly bent arm will fire up your golfer’s elbow as the flexors in your forearm are just getting repeatedly blasted with tension. On the press, you need to hit full lockout and keep your wrist straight. These little details will add up over time and that is when the elbow really starts barking.

For program design, see about adding in some floor work like crawling in multiple directions. Crawling distributes the load more evenly across your joints and can give your elbow / wrist flexors some relief without completely taking time off from all training.

 

[ChiBill]

I'm running my first ever cycle of rop and I'm doing the pull-ups as well. I'm feeling a bit of golfers elbow too and for me personally i feel it's due to the pull-ups. Generally for me when I add in lots of pull-ups my left elbow starts feeling it. I am using a therabar which seems to help and I decided to drop the pull-ups from my workouts.

 

[LarryB]

It could be attributed to both technique and volume. I’ve had fun with golfer’s elbow in the past and it can definitely put your training on the shelf for a while. My suggestion would be to film yourself and make sure your technique is good. On the clean, your arm needs to be straight before you hinge back and load up the next rep. A slightly bent arm will fire up your golfer’s elbow as the flexors in your forearm are just getting repeatedly blasted with tension. On the press, you need to hit full lockout and keep your wrist straight. These little details will add up over time and that is when the elbow really starts barking.

For program design, see about adding in some floor work like crawling in multiple directions. Crawling distributes the load more evenly across your joints and can give your elbow / wrist flexors some relief without completely taking time off from all training.

Sounds good, i will get a video up next session (Wednesday). I tend to feel it with the pull ups more too though, but I believe it’s a combo of everything. Luckily it’s not very painful at all and I’m aware of it early. I’m dropping the pull ups for now as well and will take your advice on the crawls. I’m in a kinesiology course atm and came across this morning in my text and realized immediately that it was what I’ve been feeling a bit lately.

 

[LarryB]

I'm running my first ever cycle of rop and I'm doing the pull-ups as well. I'm feeling a bit of golfers elbow too and for me personally i feel it's due to the pull-ups. Generally for me when I add in lots of pull-ups my left elbow starts feeling it. I am using a therabar which seems to help and I decided to drop the pull-ups from my workouts.

I agree about the pull ups for me it’s my right arm though.
Does chi stand for Chicago Bill? That’s where I’m hailing from!

 

[LarryB]

had it. bad. Stem cells and PRP fixed it 100%.

just used BPC 157 and some hanging and fixed a niggling shoulder tendonitis issue. FWIW

I was looking at the bpc 157 when my feet tendons were acting up. What’s your source for something like that? Go in to the doc or self administered?

 

[CMHoward]

Flexbar, Flexbar, Flexbar. Been down this path numerous times...usually from high rep pull ups.
Since I purchased some rotating rings that attach to a pull up bar, the issue has completely gone away.
Flexbar to eliminate the pain, rotating rings to eliminate the problem. (I'd also recommend doing fewer rep and do weighted pull ups).

 

[ChiBill]

Yep, from Chicago here, been really cold and non stop snow lately.

 

[LarryB]

Flexbar, Flexbar, Flexbar. Been down this path numerous times...usually from high rep pull ups.
Since I purchased some rotating rings that attach to a pull up bar, the issue has completely gone away.
Flexbar to eliminate the pain, rotating rings to eliminate the problem. (I'd also recommend doing fewer rep and do weighted pull ups).

I saw the flexbar in a pt video earlier and I’ve been wanting rings but not even for that reason, good to know.

 

[Brett Jones]

You kind of answered your own question with the reference to the volume of cleans, swings, snatches and pullups.

I would recommend taking a brief break to allow the elbow to heal up and slowly build volume back up—situations like this are better treated before they become chronic and require more intervention.
Some of the other recommendations will fit in with reducing or eliminating the load/volume to allow things to heal up.

 

[rodgie]

Another recommendation for the flex bar. I have experienced medial (and more recently lateral) epicondylitis for getting on two years. The flex bar has really reduced the pain. From my experience and various reading I have done, complete rest did not help. Possibly as tendons have such poor blood supplies compared with many other tissues in the body. This page by Steve Low has some informative reading and various exercise are prescribed. I have stuck with the flex bar rather than in add in other rehab movements. Good luck.

 

[Wyanokie]

Another recommendation for the flex bar. I have experienced medial (and more recently lateral) epicondylitis for getting on two years. The flex bar has really reduced the pain. From my experience and various reading I have done, complete rest did not help. Possibly as tendons have such poor blood supplies compared with many other tissues in the body. This page by Steve Low has some informative reading and various exercise are prescribed. I have stuck with the flex bar rather than in add in other rehab movements. Good luck.

I just ordered the flex bar as per the recommendations here. Thank you!

For anyone who is still dealing with this, I did have it and treated it with some of the common stretching and strengthening advice typically offered for it, but I also really found self-massage to be incredibly helpful. Massaging not only the problem area at the inner elbow, but also the tendons slightly further down the arm, made a big difference. I had the best results when my arm was straightened or tendons were otherwise lengthened while massaging. YMMV.

Currently I have no pain but I know if I built volume back in too fast, or if I added some of those exercises that triggered it (pullups!), it would probably flare back up. I look forward to trying the flex bar, hopefully I can kick it for good.

 

[LarryB]

You kind of answered your own question with the reference to the volume of cleans, swings, snatches and pullups.

I would recommend taking a brief break to allow the elbow to heal up and slowly build volume back up—situations like this are better treated before they become chronic and require more intervention.
Some of the other recommendations will fit in with reducing or eliminating the load/volume to allow things to heal up.

I was thinking the same as i was typing the original post...plan is to not clean for every press during ladders, no pull ups, no snatching and pt exercises. I did some self analysis today and find that i may not be allowing my right arm (one in pain) to fully extend on the bottom of my snatches and cleans. Any recommendations for fixing/drilling this? Just being more conscious of it today seemed to help as well.

 

[LarryB]

It could be attributed to both technique and volume. I’ve had fun with golfer’s elbow in the past and it can definitely put your training on the shelf for a while. My suggestion would be to film yourself and make sure your technique is good. On the clean, your arm needs to be straight before you hinge back and load up the next rep. A slightly bent arm will fire up your golfer’s elbow as the flexors in your forearm are just getting repeatedly blasted with tension. On the press, you need to hit full lockout and keep your wrist straight. These little details will add up over time and that is when the elbow really starts barking.

For program design, see about adding in some floor work like crawling in multiple directions. Crawling distributes the load more evenly across your joints and can give your elbow / wrist flexors some relief without completely taking time off from all training.

Sorry for the poor camera work, i plan to make one of me snatching as well. Thank you as always. I was being more conscious of my form and i believe that you’re right and I’m not allowing my right arm (one in pain) to fully extend on the drop of the clean and my snatches. Any pointers are greatly appreciated.

Form check

Form check 2

 

[coachnathanwhite]

Any pointers are greatly appreciated.

Your pressing groove looks good.


Couple of pointers on the clean -

1) Especially on the right side, you are pulling the bell up with your traps and biceps due to a shallow hip hinge. This is more than likely the root cause of the elbow pain. As a rule - The hips drive and the arms guide.

2) Practice your single arm swing and focus on a deeper hinge. Once that gets locked in you will be able to transfer that power into your clean. This takes practice. The clean is the most "finesse" move of all the Big 6 (Swing, Getup, Snatch, Clean, Press, Squat).

 

[LarryB]

Your pressing groove looks good.


Couple of pointers on the clean -

1) Especially on the right side, you are pulling the bell up with your traps and biceps due to a shallow hip hinge. This is more than likely the root cause of the elbow pain. As a rule - The hips drive and the arms guide.

2) Practice your single arm swing and focus on a deeper hinge. Once that gets locked in you will be able to transfer that power into your clean. This takes practice. The clean is the most "finesse" move of all the Big 6 (Swing, Getup, Snatch, Clean, Press, Squat).

Awesome! I may take a slight break from rop and rehab on s&s then.
I recently started trying to get deeper in my knee bend part of the hinge in all movements. Just to be clear do you want my whole upper extremity to go deeper into the sagittal plane, or get my knee bend deeper in the transverse plane? If that even makes sense...I’m trying to use my newly learned anatomy/physiology/kinesiology terms more in everyday life to practice.

 

[Anna C]

@LarryB one thing you might try with the press (because of the forearm strain you're experiencing) is putting some extra awareness on the handle in your hand, and your grip on the handle during the press. It's usually not observable externally -- your grip looks fine -- but over a lot of reps a strong grip can add up to overwork for these muscles. You can take some strain off the forearm with presses by feeling the weight in the heel of the hand. The easiest way to "get" this for me is to clean the bell, make sure the wrist is straight, open the hand, and press with an open hand, making sure the wrist stays straight. Not to do this all the time, but to get the feel of where the weight is sitting. Then for your regular presses, let more of the weight be right there at the base of the hand which is right over the ulna and then elbow below it, and then when you press you'll be transferring force more directly to the weight.