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Kettlebell No shopping at the Jerk Store for me

@marlowe Not to derail the thread but I couldn't get over this...
While many abandoned ext-rotation work, I had such great results with it, having a full slap tear on my left shoulder as well as seeing results with hundreds of students that instead I increased my efforts even further.
At a certain stage I did clean reps in the Cuban Rotation (not to be confused with the muscle snatch, I mean without any momentum and not upright rowing the barbell first, pure rotation back and forth) with 40Kg at 65-70kg of bodyweight and for reps. I only know of one other person who took it to that extent, my student and assistant Joe Schmoe.
How did my shoulders feel? Absolutely invincible. I was doing aggressive one arm work on a shoulder that apparently had no articular stability.
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While I don't disagree at all with the spirit of the post (that trainers and coaches have unfairly demonized and poo-poo'ed external rotation work), is a strict Cuban Rotation with over half of bdwt in your hands even possible? I'm thinking physics might say no, but you know, the last physics class I took was in the 80s and things might have changed since then.
 
Adam R Mundorf said:
Thank you for sharing. Can you pinpoint what caused you to need a shoulder replacement and/or what would you do differently?
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I had severe bone on bone with no joint space--daily pain even at rest with very limited ROM.If I could do it differently(this is only for me,I cant speak for others) I would have avoided the barbell for benching and military press(dumbbells/KBs instead--floor press instead of bench);avoid high volume overhead pressing and no snatches.Would have worked more on building strength than demonstrating it(lived on a diet of heavy benches and over head press with KBs and barbell).Would have concentrated more on shoulder mobility,get ups,arm bars and more pulling/rowing to balance the pressing.
 
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s f said:
I had severe bone on bone with no joint space--daily pain even at rest with very limited ROM.If I could do it differently(this is only for me,I cant speak for others) I would have avoided the barbell for benching and military press(dumbbells/KBs instead--floor press instead of bench);avoid high volume overhead pressing and no snatches.Would have worked more on building strength than demonstrating it(lived on a diet of heavy benches and over head press with KBs and barbell).Would have concentrated more on get ups/static overhead strength(arm bars also).
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Awesome, thank you.
 
To shamelessly steal what Pavel T said of squats; “Everyone needs to squat, but not everyone needs to squat heavy”. I think the same is true of overhead pressing.

How will you deal with taking things from an upper shelf as you age? Reaching the light in the shop to turn it on and off?

I’m with others. I wouldn’t give up yet on overhead presses.

One thing you might look into is Indian club training. Perhaps not yet while rehabbing…but perhaps so. I am finding these little 1-3lb weights to have much greater benefit than I first anticipated.
 
Cyrus-II said:
To shamelessly steal what Pavel T said of squats; “Everyone needs to squat, but not everyone needs to squat heavy”. I think the same is true of overhead pressing.

How will you deal with taking things from an upper shelf as you age? Reaching the light in the shop to turn it on and off?

I’m with others. I wouldn’t give up yet on overhead presses.

One thing you might look into is Indian club training. Perhaps not yet while rehabbing…but perhaps so. I am finding these little 1-3lb weights to have much greater benefit than I first anticipated.
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I don't think giving up is an option but rather what @Rif has been doing. Find variations and forms of the fundamental movements you can do without pain. He's been remarkably consistent and doesn't get overly hung up on 'perfect form' but rather the form that's perfect for him.

As @Steve Freides says, the one arm movements allow your body to shift whichever way is most comfortable for your current limitations. I think it's perfect for the aging person, provided you start light enough.
 
Boris Bachmann said:
@marlowe Not to derail the thread but I couldn't get over this...

While I don't disagree at all with the spirit of the post (that trainers and coaches have unfairly demonized and poo-poo'ed external rotation work), is a strict Cuban Rotation with over half of bdwt in your hands even possible? I'm thinking physics might say no, but you know, the last physics class I took was in the 80s and things might have changed since then.
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I have no idea. Getting some dumbbells and doing some work on Cuban Rotatations is on my list of stuff to do in the near future. Strengthening the rotator cuff seems to me like a great idea, since shoulder injuries seem so prevalent. Low-effort exercise, possibly some great rewards to reap... why not? I'd love to get some "invincible" shoulders, as Ido puts it. I don't have half-bodyweight as a goal, certainly, but, still.

He certainly has an ego and a brash personality, but doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who'd lie about his feats, but we never know.
 
s f said:
I had severe bone on bone with no joint space--daily pain even at rest with very limited ROM.If I could do it differently(this is only for me,I cant speak for others) I would have avoided the barbell for benching and military press(dumbbells/KBs instead--floor press instead of bench);avoid high volume overhead pressing and no snatches.Would have worked more on building strength than demonstrating it(lived on a diet of heavy benches and over head press with KBs and barbell).Would have concentrated more on shoulder mobility,get ups,arm bars and more pulling/rowing to balance the pressing.
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This is insightful. Could you clarify the "and no snatches" part? Do you mean, avoid pressing with no snatches, in other words, do more snatches instead of presses? Or do you mean you would do no snatches? And in either case, are you referring to barbell snatch, or kettlebell snatch?
 
Anna C said:
This is insightful. Could you clarify the "and no snatches" part? Do you mean, avoid pressing with no snatches, in other words, do more snatches instead of presses? Or do you mean you would do no snatches? And in either case, are you referring to barbell snatch, or kettlebell snatch?
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Presses--slow cadence/low volume.I would avoid overhead ballistics so no barbell or KB snatches--but again only speaking for myself.Thanks for your comments.
 
marlowe said:
He certainly has an ego and a brash personality, but doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who'd lie about his feats, but we never know.
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Yeah, plenty of ego. Over time, some of my own accomplishments have become "fuzzy" - some of that is probably inevitable as you age. I'm not calling him a liar necessarily but he is a good salesman.
 
BrianCF said:
4 and a half months post shoulder replacement surgery, I've started lifting again. Light chest, rows, shoulder shrugs and arm work. Feels good, my cadence is slow since I have to go light. Conditioning is excellent, down 17 lb. in 6 weeks (Thanks Geoff, Kettlebell Burn Extreme Diet + no alcohol). Today I was doing two hand swings with a 70 lb. bell. Just good sets of 10. After 100 I walked over to the kettlebell rack and grabbed a pair of 25 lb. bells. Did 5 double cleans, no pain and thought, (well let's see...) dipped my knees, went to push bells up from the rack....NOT EVEN CLOSE. The overhead days are officially over. My shoulder reminded me quickly that was a no no. Not pain, just a quick tug in the rotator cuff.

And I thought it was 95 %. Do some presses, jerks and snatches for me! I'll stick with rows, swings, goblet squats, farmer's carries and double kettlebell deadlifts.
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Are unloaded overhead movements okay? If so, that might be all the mobility you need to function properly.

And maybe, given enough time, horizontal and downward presses will be possible. Original Strength floor resets tend to strengthen the shoulder girdle in a gentle way.
 
I am 38, and can do single and double jerk for the time being. I was just curious if you have advice about what to do to prevent limited rang over head to happen as you get older.
 
Cyrus-II said:
One thing you might look into is Indian club training. Perhaps not yet while rehabbing…but perhaps so. I am finding these little 1-3lb weights to have much greater benefit than I first anticipated.
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I found 1# Indian Clubs to be a game changer for me in rehabbing nagging shoulder injuries that I couldn’t quite get to resolve.

I found lots of easy fluid reps worked out a lot of the crunchy sticky bits. A couple weeks of daily use 5-10min pretty much resolved stuff that had been stuck and sore for 6 months +.

I got some 2# clubs also, which I find much less useful. The 1# are where it’s at for rehab.
Don’t do what feels sketchy. Go easy with them, easing back where it doesn’t feel good. And be patient. The ROM naturally opened up for me over time, when I didn’t get impatient and push it.
 
My visiting the physical therapist is over. I have my homework exercises and do them. I can press using machines, but it's light and slow.
UPDATE just now!!!! I have a 15 lb. kettlebell. Walked over to it cleaned and pressed 2 reps. First rep was sticky, second rep went up fine, then switched sides. Right side had same stickiness. Maybe it's just being dormant.

@stevefreides thanks for the one bell tip. It worked.

Right now, for shoulder work, I do Hammer Strength shrugs and a sled/farmer carry machine once a week with 140 lb it has a wheel on it like a wheelbarrow and a sled skis.

Thank you to all for hearing me out and advice.
 
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