Kettlebell Not Doing The Bench Press

[Deleted member 5559]

Are there benefits in performing low volume slow repetitions of the pushup? or should I perform high volume explosive ones?

I would do the up portion explosively regardless of the down tempo you chose. If you want to run fast, run fast. If you want to lift heavy, lift heavy. If you want to lift slow, lift slow. You get the idea.
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I think floor presses are really good for training explosiveness because there isn't a stretch reflex. I also like them because they do not require quite as much volume as push-ups. I think bench pressing is only a negative if it's done too much or takes away from training time needed for other things.

 

[Matt L]

I would do the up portion explosively regardless of the down tempo you chose. If you want to run fast, run fast. If you want to lift heavy, lift heavy. If you want to lift slow, lift slow. You get the idea.
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I think floor presses are really good for training explosiveness because there isn't a stretch reflex. I also like them because they do not require quite as much volume as push-ups. I think bench pressing is only a negative if it's done too much or takes away from training time needed for other things.

The floor press seems solid as well since you have mentioned that it takes out the stretch reflex, and starting from dead stop everytime. would you recommend a rep scheme I can follow? I will try it out on my decompression stretching days as thats the day I put my accesory work on if I have any.

 

[H. Mac]

I’ve pretty much avoided BP for the past 50 years, and have instead developed a liking for Push Ups, Incline Push Ups, and Dips, especially with rings.

 

[Simply strong]

Are there benefits in performing low volume slow repitions of the pushup? or should I perform high volume explosive ones?

Both. Though I’d do lower volume explosive reps. Tbh though the kettlebell press will increase your ability to do push ups. I’ve focused on barbell/kettlebell OHP and pull ups for years now but managed to do some one arm one leg push ups on a whim a few weeks ago.

 

[Deleted member 5559]

would you recommend a rep scheme I can follow?

I like doing pyramid ladders. The rung increases I use depend on the weight used. Generally, I increase the rung reps equal to the max reps divided by ten, rounded up.
<10 rep max = 1 rep rungs: 1-2-3-4..#...4-3-2-1
10-20 rep max = 2 rep rungs: 2-4-6-8...#...8-6-4-2

However, if you want to do them daily, I would only do the up ladder. From high frequency to low frequency: up ladder, down ladder, pyramid. Doing them to failure is a personal choice and not necessary. To failure trains endurance better in my experiences, if that's what is wanted though.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

what strength gains of benefits am I missing out if I dont do the bench press?

Pec Development

The Bench Press provide pec development. The overhead press provides virtually none.

The pecs are the largest anterior muscle groups.

Unlike other lifts the bench press doesn’t have many benefits outside the gym.

The Bench Press For Sports

The Bench Press is good movement for sports like American Football, Judo, Karate, Boxing, as well as some other sports.

In a daily activity in which you are standing and pushing horizontally, you are performing a "Horizontal Bench Press".

So, there is some carry over from the Bench Press on things outside the gym.

With that said, one of the best upper body exercise is...

The Upper Body Dip

This movement has often been touted as "Upper Body Squats".

Dips allow you work the muscles through a greater range of movement than the Bench Press.

The bottom part of the Dip provides a weight stretch, ensuring greater flexibility as well as greater muscle involvement.

Performing an exercise like the Dip that stretches the muscles elicits some Muscle Damage, which promotes an increase in muscle mass. The three components of optimizing muscle mass are the synergistic effect of: Muscle Damage, Metabolic Stress, and Mechanical Tensio.

The Bench Press doesn't allow for full range movement unless performed with a Cambered Olympic Bar or Dumbbells.

With Dips, you can train to failure without getting the weight stuck on you as you would in the Bench Press.

Olympic Lifter and The Bench Press

Olympic Lifter recognize that some Bench Pressing is necessary. However, they limit their Bench Press Training. That because too much Bench Pressing limits their flexibility in the Snatch.

Many Powerlifers find the Olympic Snatch difficult. That because they are not flexible enough to get the bar far enough back behind their head in a Squat Snatch.

An interesting side note, in a situation in with an individual that has limited flexibility a Squat Snatch or Power Squat Snatch. have them performing a Split Snatch or Power Split Snatch.

The Split Snatch and Power Split Snatch allows them to get the bar back behind their head. The Spit Snatch also has a greater carry over to sports.

The Mirror Effect

One of the issues men who are obsessed with Bench Press , is they tend to train only what they see in the mirror from the waste up.

Some Pec Training Is Better Than NO Pec Training

Some pec training should be part of your program: Bench Press, Dumbbell Bench Press, Dips, Push Ups, etc. Doing something is better than doing nothing.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I think floor presses are really good for training explosiveness because there isn't a stretch reflex

The Stretch Reflex

The Stretch Reflex is a vital component for developing and increasing Explosive Power.

Research determined that up to 18% more force is produce when a movement employs the Stretch Reflex.

The only way to develop the Stretch Reflex is by training it.

Thus, performing a Floor Press without some type of Stretch Reflex training component, limit the amount of Explosive Strength that can be developed.

Explosive Power Training

The primary key for Explosive Power Development is to employ training percentages of 48 - 62% of a 1 Repetition Max in an exercise with traditional exercises, such as the Squat, Pressing Movements, Deadlift, etc.

Explosive Floor Presses

For Explosive Floor Press Training From A Dead Stop the following needs to occur

1) Performing the Floor Press with the lower end of the Power Training Percentage, around 48% of a 1 Repetition Max Floor Press.

2) In driving the bar up, "The Intent" need to be on going ballistic; throwing the bar up into the air.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Simply strong]

In a daily activity in which you are standing and pushing horizontally, you are performing a "Horizontal Bench Press".

In a horizontal bench press the majority of the work is being done with the legs and core. In fact I read a study a while ago that said in a standing horizontal push the pecks are only loaded with 40% of MVC so bench press would have minimal (though some) benefit. I don’t doubt that judo and American football athletes train bench and have big bench presses but that doesn’t mean it benifits there sport in a huge way. I once saw a video of Husain Bolt doing leg extensions but still wouldn’t recommend them over squats.

 

[North Coast Miller]

Strictly from what I have seen re carry-over, doing horizontal push and horizontal pull covers a great deal of the OHP benefit, while OHP does very little for horizontal push/pull. I speculate as long as you maintain good shoulder mobility, most folks won't suffer any loss of overhead strength by doing only horizontal push/pull work.

I realize this runs counter to a lot of current fitness theory, but OHP is the least used mechanical pattern on a daily basis for most folks, electricians and drywall installers excepted.

In a horizontal bench press the majority of the work is being done with the legs and core. In fact I read a study a while ago that said in a standing horizontal push the pecks are only loaded with 40% of MVC so bench press would have minimal (though some) benefit.

This is why I feel the loaded PU has more daily carryover as it engages the core to a much greater degree. I also came to the conclusion that some patterns like the pec deck that are not thought of as functional, might actually be closer to common daily movement patterns than OHP or benchpress. Cross body clamping stability is a big part of the pecs job.

The biggest issue with doing only regular PUs is you rapidly get yourself into a rep range where it is tough to make progress - >30 reps/set and you're definitely training endurance over power.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

In a horizontal bench press the majority of the work is being done with the legs and core. In fact I read a study a while ago that said in a standing horizontal push the pecks are only loaded with 40% of MVC so bench press would have minimal (though some) benefit.

Leg Drive

Yes, there going to be a great deal of leg drive. However, amount of upper body Bench Press strength is going provide quite a bit substantial drive.

Who is going to deliver more most likely going to deliver more Power and Strength with in some type of upper body Bench Press in diving something back; someone Benching 300 lbs or 400 lbs?

I don’t doubt that judo and American football athletes train bench and have big bench presses but that doesn’t mean it benifits there sport in a huge way.

Strength Is The Foundation of Power

Initially, an increase in Limit Strength increases Power Output.

However, at some point Power Training in conjunction with Limit Strength Training need to be employed to maximize Power as well as increase Power.

This bring us back to the question of who'd you rather have performing a standing Bench Press on you in Judo or in Football, a 300 lb or 400 lb Bench Presser?

The Synergistic Effect

The combination of leg drive with upper body drive elicits a synergistic effect, meaning 2 + 2 equals 5, metaphorically speaking.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Steve A]

Hello Guys,

I would like to know some of your insights regarding not doing the bench press. I am not a fan of doing the bench press and I find that i prefer preasing over head rather than lying down.

what strength gains of benefits am I missing out if I dont do the bench press?


Thank you!

You might find the perspectives of a former 600 lb bencher of interest:

For military purposes Military Deployment Prep: A Program for Hardening the Soldier | StrongFirst

For health/longevity purposes (scroll down to 4.1.2) PT: The U.S. Air Force Fitness Assessment, Longevity & Quality of Life – Be Well and Strong

Lots of other good info in those articles as well.

 

[rickyw]

You might find the perspectives of a former 600 lb bencher of interest

Who doesn’t bench anymore

 

[Mirek]

Another useful perspective of the former 600+ lbs bencher


And yet another one, this time from judo
http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/61_07_Strength_on_Mat.pdf

 

[guardian7]

Hello Guys,

I would like to know some of your insights regarding not doing the bench press. I am not a fan of doing the bench press and I find that i prefer preasing over head rather than lying down.

what strength gains of benefits am I missing out if I dont do the bench press?


Thank you!

You could do dumbell bench pressing for higher reps than you would with a barbell with increasingly difficult pushup variations. Generally, you want to move in a variety of planes of motion.

 

[Marc]

It all comes down to specificity and your goals. Do absolutely do not have to do the bench press if you don't like it for whatever reason. There are plenty of other options to train the horizontal pressing plane which might suit you better/worse.
Bottom line: No single exercise is a "must" unless you have a very good reason to specifically improve said exercise/move.