Barbell OHP or BP

[Simply strong]

Ive always favoured the OHP for my test of upper body strength, but recently have been bench pressing for fun and because it’s a little kinder on my shoulder since I aggravated it in sport specific training.

It strikes me that it’s much easier to train assistance exercises after bench pressing than it is after overhead press. Ive found I can bench pretty heavy then do get ups, kettlebell press, push up or pull up practice and the session flows fairly well and no lift feels fatigued from the lifts that went before. For this reason is training the bench press a better focus? On the one hand I can practice kettlebell and bodyweight skills after benching, but on the other isn’t that evidence that the bench is not as comprehensive a lift as the overhead press? Ie the reason I can do get ups after benching is because the bench press doesn’t train the upper back as well as the overhead press?

So with this in mind which lift is better to train long term? Putting aside the satisfaction of putting a heavy weight overhead and the fact that the overhead press is far more athletic and aesthetic - but then will you become more athletic training BP as you can also train bodyweight and kettlebell skills?

I’ve sort of rambled and thought-vomited this post but if it makes sense I’d appreciate any/all feedback

 

[watchnerd]

but on the other isn’t that evidence that the bench is not as comprehensive a lift as the overhead press? Ie the reason I can do get ups after benching is because the bench press doesn’t train the upper back as well as the overhead press?

I don't bench very often -- I'm going through 4-6 week cycles 1 or 2 times this year as part of a hypertrophy block before weightlifting competition prep.

My feelings are similar to yours -- the bench press doesn't make me feel "athletic".

OHP, push press, jerks, BTN, Klokov, push ups, ring work -- all feel more comprehensive and athletic to me.

Heck, even landmine presses.

 

[Antti]

Regarding athletics, consider professional athletes, like in track & field. Like sprints and javelin, for example. Which lift do they do, the bench press or the overhead press?

As a recreational athlete, I see no need to forgo either one. Both are great fun.

Pavel did write an article on the best press... Maybe he knows a thing or two. At least I would expect the people on this site to think so.

 

[william bad butt]

Do both. How many days per week do you train the press? Let's say it is 3 day/ week.... Spend 1 day on the bench press, training pretty hard. Then spend the remaining days on the OHP on medium.

Regards,

Eric

 

[watchnerd]

Regarding athletics, consider professional athletes, like in track & field. Like sprints and javelin, for example. Which lift do they do, the bench press or the overhead press?

As a recreational athlete, I see no need to forgo either one. Both are great fun.

Pavel did write an article on the best press... Maybe he knows a thing or two. At least I would expect the people on this site to think so.

To quote Mark Rippetoe:

"I think that a guy's presses ought to be more important to him than his bench presses. And the reason I think that is that the press is a more complete exercise."

Mark riffs on this a bit in the first minutes of this video (which is one of my favorite bench tutorials):




Full disclosure:

I do both vertical and horizontal presses in a 2:1 ratio (because of sport), and some of those horizontal presses are the bench. Although when I bench I mostly do incline bench (because of sport), and often with dumbbells.

 

[Stefan Olsson]

Travis Jewitt suggests in his book, Dad Strong:

We will discuss what I refer to as the big four: the deadlift, press, squat and bench press. I placed them in the order I believe to be the most important. If you only decided to do 2 lifts with a bar the rest of your life, I would tell you to do deadlifts and press. If you only wanted to add one lift to your life with a barbell I would direct you towards deadlifts.

I like this and give you my awnser to your question.

 

[Philippe Geoffrion]

Why not just cycle both in at different times?

The answer is…it depends. For a powerlifter, it’s a no brainer.

Not every lift needs to be athletic. When I hauled 2 x 70 lbs Ikea bags with awkwardly loaded and tumbling around items up six stories of spiral staircases in Paris, I didn’t feel athletic….but I felt strong.

 

[Anna C]

Mark riffs on this a bit in the first minutes of this video (which is one of my favorite bench tutorials):

I like that one, too, and I like the way I learned to bench at the Starting Strength Seminar. I'm going to that gym weekend after next for my first Weightlifting meet. Looking forward to it! I expect Mark Rippetoe will be the head judge.

So with this in mind which lift is better to train long term?

I think I'd have to say overhead press. But I really like to bench press occasionally. Somehow even getting into position on the bench and pressing any moderate weight is a great tonic for my upper back, and feels great. There's really nothing else that I've found that uses that position and combination of muscles. Also, it is one of the only things I would change if I went back in my strength training history (8 years) -- I would have started bench pressing sooner (didn't start until 4 yrs ago).

 

[Denny Phillips]

I have a acquaintance that is a world-class discus thrower, once having one of the top fifteen throws on the planet in 2016. He was helping one of my kids and we started up a discussion about technique and preparation. During our talk he stunned me by stating that the Europeans have done studies making a direct correlation between how much their throwers bench and how far they throw. Overhead movements are push-press and other Olympic variations. The primary limit strength emphasis is on bench press and deadlift.

This is an older study that supports the finding:

PREDICTORS OF PERFORMANCE IN ELITE DISCUS THROWERS

Abstract. This study described the characteristics of 13 elite discus throwers and explored factors that predicted performance. The sample included three former world record holders and four Olympians- all of whom won Olympic medals during their

www.academia.edu

Regarding the OP, william bad butt and watchnerd make salient points. Were you to train presses three times weekly one could consider a bench day, an overhead press day, and an incline bench or close grip bench session. It seems wise to do at least a portion of each with DB's.

 

[Hung]

Somehow even getting into position on the bench and pressing any moderate weight is a great tonic for my upper back, and feels great.

I feel the same.

the fact that the overhead press is far more athletic and aesthetic

each one will have a different choices for athletic lifts. Another member on this forum, who has wrestling background, said handstand push up is great for his sport. I play soccer, and I find out that handstand push up didn't do much. But overhead press helps; and bench press helps a lot.

 

[Philippe Geoffrion]

I feel the same.

each one will have a different choices for athletic lifts. Another member on this forum, who has wrestling background, said handstand push up is great for his sport. I play soccer, and I find out that handstand push up didn't do much. But overhead press helps; and bench press helps a lot.

Just curious…has bench pressed helped soccer? If so, in what way? I feel @Antti alluded to bench press helping sprinters, which I agree with, which would have a correlation with soccer performance.

 

[Alan Mackey]

I like OHP. I strongly dislike bench press. And I love dips.

Curiously enough, I’ve found that 45° incline bench presses pretty much cover all my pressing needs and then some. They also seem to improve both OHP and bench press.

 

[Timo Keskitalo]

There's so many variants in Overhead presses that I just won't go there. I personally can do some type of strict military press with about half the weight I can bench press. So there's no doubt which one will develop my upper body limit strength more. At least when you think about moving your hands.

About functionality, maybe it's about the direction of movement. For most track and field the movement is horizontal. So to keep body position, strong horizontal movement is required and mostly forward -> bench. High jump is pretty much an anomaly. For soccer it's pretty much the same, only the change of direction can be anywhere.

OH pressing is more about upper body stability, especially shoulder. This is a must in weightlifting and I guess pretty important in wrestling and such. Track and field require a lot of upper body stability too, but there are many sports that require the strength.

So train them all but bench is best. Says a wannabe PL.

 

[watchnerd]

I'm going to that gym weekend after next for my first Weightlifting meet. Looking forward to it! I expect Mark Rippetoe will be the head judge.

Wow, you first time? Do you have your singlet already?

I didn't know Rip judged weightlifting, so that should be fun, too.

I think I'd have to say overhead press. But I really like to bench press occasionally.

Occasionally is how I like to use it, too.

I do have to make sure I do pec stretches afterwards, though, if I do flat bench.

Mostly, when I bench, I do incline, as it has a little more carryover to overhead movements.

Incline dumbbell press is also something I work in, although sometimes it feels less like a press and more like a flye-press hybrid.

 

[Anna C]

Wow, you first time? Do you have your singlet already?

I didn't know Rip judged weightlifting, so that should be fun, too.

Yep, got one of those for the first time, thanks to help from @LoriLifts. I guess I can sport a singlet...

I've watched some StrengthLifting meets at WFAC that Rip has judged, usually live streamed on YouTube (I don't know if this one will be). He's quite good at it. Although it's not a USAW sanctioned meet, I'm familiar with the gym and felt it would be a good first meet experience. There will be C&P in addition to Snatch and C&J.

Incline dumbbell press is also something I work in, although sometimes it feels less like a press and more like a flye-press hybrid.

Yeah that might be a good assistance lift... I have not nailed that sort of thing down yet. I do plenty of lift variations, but only occasionally work in extra rows or other bodybuilding type work.

 

[SethRen]

split the difference with incline bench

 

[Simply strong]

Overhead movements are push-press and other Olympic variations.

As a side point, why is the overhead/BP/floor press prescribed in power to the people over push press? I hear Pavel talk quite a bit about the necessity of doing both grinds and ballistics. Is it because you would need a rack and the program likes the idea of only needing the bar and plates?

 

[Boris Bachmann]

I don't understand why this is an 'either... or...' question. If time is a concern, rotate the lifts.

 

[the hansenator]

As a side point, why is the overhead/BP/floor press prescribed in power to the people over push press? I hear Pavel talk quite a bit about the necessity of doing both grinds and ballistics. Is it because you would need a rack and the program likes the idea of only needing the bar and plates?

I'll just take a guess and speculate that PTP is a strength program so a grinding type exercise is a better fit. Also, in the interest of minimalism, not everyone will have a rack or the technique to clean a barbell to the shoulders.

 

[watchnerd]

split the difference with incline bench

I think the landmine chest press splits the difference even better, because you're standing, just like in OHP.

And the pressing angle is like an incline bench.