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Old Forum opinions on superabbreviated low frequency training

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Cearball

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Hi again.

 

Was reading a book by Kubrick that advocates super abbreviated low frequency training as the only way some people can make gains. Very similar to "brawn" philosophy.

 

Since I am not make amazing progress on pttp I was considering staying on that programme as it fits the super abbreviated model (with 10 mins of kb's as cardio) but cutting frequency to 1 or 2 a week.

 

In the past pavel said "brawn" was a good book but didn't state why. The frequency ideas seem at odds with his philosophy.

 

Anyone have experience with these type of programmes?

 

Thanks
 
Cearball, one does not always want or need to make "amazing progress" - a bit of background about your life and lifting history would be helpful here.  I find Dan John's idea of park bench and bus bench times in one's exercise life simply brilliant - look that up, and allow yourself some park bench time if you haven't already.  Jason's question is right, too, of course, but we need at least a bit of the "big picture" to help.  No one will make progress on PTTP forever - changes in program are good.  So maybe it's the way you've been doing PTTP, or maybe it's time for a change.

-S-
 
Hi.

ok I have been doing PTTP since 26 Oct 2013.

PR's 1RM then were

26 Oct 2013
Deadlift conventional 130kg
Bench 80KG
Barbell OP 5o ish kg

26 Nov 2014
Deadlift conventional 150KG
Barbell OP 52.5KG
Bench 85kg

I am still doing PTTP.

Was originally doing linear cycle but was getting burnt out at the end of the cycles.

So switched to a "easy strength inspired wave cycle" as suggested by Steve here
http://www.strongfirst.com/topic/ptp-advice/

My main aim for this programme is to achieve a double BW deadlift of 160KG.

I practice light, Goblet squats, single leg deads & TGU between sets.

Do 10 mins of KB ballistics after strength session then stretch.

Been lifting "seriously" since 2012 a mix of mainly kettlebells, bodyweight & dumbbells.
Was a manual labourer since I was 18 for 8 years.
Been working 12 hour shift work primarily since 18.
My diet isn't particularly good or my sleep pattern.

Thanks for the responses if there is anything else I can help with let me know.
 
Marty Gallagher prescribes a total of one hour of strength training per week for his military clients as well as his beginner clients.

The exercises are squat, bench, deadlift and overhead press.

 

You could train twice a week. Day one squat and bench. Day two deadlift and overhead press.

Work up to a heavy top set. Probably for four weeks a top set of 8, then four weeks a top set of 5 and finally a top set of 3.

That way you'll need about fifteen minutes per exercise and will be in and out in under half an hour. That way you get plenty of rest as you hit each exercise hard only once a week.
 
Hi!

"Power to the People!" recommends a minimum and maximum number of sessions per week. Try to change the frequence as a first step. If you would like to continue with this program, may I make some more suggestions:

*Don't do anything strenous between sets. Get Pavel's "Fast & Loose" and help yourself relax and to better focus your energy on increasing the tension during the main lifts.

*Try different lengths of your cycles to avoid burnouts. Pavel mentions a minimum number of sessions as a guidline.

*If you eventually get to train as often as 4 times a week, you can try the block periodization from "Easy Strength" alternating barbell and kettlebell training.

Best regards, Henke in Sweden
 
The cycle Steve recommended worked alot better for me as opposed to the straight linear cycle.

I was training 3-4 times a week on it & feeling pretty good even if my progress wasn't stella.

When I said I did exercises in between sets they are light "grooving" exercises for mobility & just to practice the movements.

I should of also stipulated one of the main reasons I started following PTTP was to remain close to my 80kg weight which this programme is meant to be  good for.

Thanks
 
I am looking for superabbreviated low frequency routine (once or twice a week) for sleeping, brushing my teeth, improving my takedowns and boxing combinations... You know what I'm saying?

"Specificity + frequent practice = success". PTTP (and S&S, and GTG method of Naked Warrior, and Easy Strength protocol) are imho already very minimalistic routines.

I doubt PTTP will work if you practice it once or twice a week. What I suggest:

- You may reduce your PTTT practice towards the end of the cycle from let's say 5 times a week to 3 times a week to 2 times a week

- You may switch to another cycling method - eg. from linear to step, or wave

- You may switch from set of 5 with working poundage, and second set of 5 with 90% of the working poundage, as suggested  in the original PTTP, to 3 sets with the same weight 5 reps, 3 reps, 2 reps (PTTP 2.0, as suggested by Jack Reape)

- You may switch to different DL and Press variation

1 day SFL Barbell Course, or 3-Day SFL cert is HIGHLY recommended - you will learn all you need for next 50 years or so.
 
Hey guys, just to clarify I would stick with PTTP as it is obviously already a super abbreviated programme, it is more the frequency side of it I was interested in.

As it doesn't seem to be delivering the goods for me at the moment. Though I am surprised how much my KB cardio has improved with the programme I am doing.

Some more details I am doing the 5,3,2 static weight version. Although I tend to change my press semi regularly I mainly just alternate sumo & conventional for the dead.

I might just switch to 2 times a week & see what happens, I understand the whole frequency argument but if the 3-4 times a week isn't working for me maybe this might. At least it is one variable I haven't tried yet.

Thanks

When is strongfirst going to come to the UK?
 
Given the progress over year I'd suggest to make a more drastic change. the body most likely adapted and by reducing the frequency and thereby the total volume I find it improbable that you will improve.

 

What's more PTTP bases on a high frequency. If you reduce the frequency the total volume reduces too much and progress is unlikely. Basically if you train more infrequent you have to hit each exercise harder. Then you'll benefit from the increased rest in between sessions.  If ou train more often you have to reduce the volume per session. Otherwise you'd run into trouble.

 

Best of luck
 
How much kettlebell 'cardio' are you doing?  That jumps right out me in the posts you make.  PTTP is an incredibly specific strength program, and if you're in a hurry to get to the 160kg dead I wouldn't layer a lot of extra stuff on top.

 

I really think you're asking a lot to get stronger on 2 exercises done twice a week for a couple of sets.    If you're set on twice a week training I think the bear approach may be better to get some volume in on the lifts.
 
I might just switch to 2 times a week & see what happens, I understand the whole frequency argument but if the 3-4 times a week isn’t working for me maybe this might. At least it is one variable I haven’t tried yet.
Click to expand...
I would think if you were going to vary frequency, you should try 4-5 instead of dropping to 2.

I just switched to PTTP because, apart from the volume, it seemed to have the good aspects of what was getting me gains previously and because my gains were starting to get incremental, and coming at the expense of form.

I can only hit the gym 3 times a week, and so I do a truncated variant of the Russian Bear to keep the volume up. The second set is 90% of the first, as prescribed, but then I continue to do sets of 5 with that weight 30-60 seconds apart until the reps drop below 5.

I have only been at it 2 weeks, but the extra sets give me another way to gauge progress (and a goal to shoot for) even when I don't move up in weight or reps for the first set (e.g., did 5 sets the last time, and got 6 this time).

 
 
Hi,

A bit more background I have tried 5 to 4 times a week during my training, mainly 4 times a week out of the two. It didn't seem to elicit any greater progress than 3 times a week. Just made me more tired.

I have had breaks from the programme naturally through holidays, 2 of which were high altitude trekking & one which was a longish road trip (in which I GTG'd push ups & pistols).

I am not doing insane cardio workouts with the kb just 10 mins workouts, very rarely go over 200 reps probably more in the 80-139 range.

If I am feeling good I may test by say doing as many sets as I can with a lighter KB or doing non stop swings or doing VWC type workout. But this is very infrequently.

Maybe it is simply time for a change but I promised myself I wouldn't stray from the programme until I got a 2x BW deadlift.

Will be testing my Back squat next week to see where that is.
 
I'm thinking about this:

Was a manual labourer since I was 18 for 8 years.
Been working 12 hour shift work primarily since 18.
My diet isn’t particularly good or my sleep pattern.

Cearball, you're a hard worker!  If you can find some ways to give yourself some better quality rest, it might do a lot of good for your training.
 
I practice light, Goblet squats, single leg deads & TGU between sets.
Click to expand...
Could you clarify what you mean by this? Maybe give a sample workout, including weights?

My understanding is that you shouldn't be doing anything between sets, and that the sets themselves should be heavy.
 
Right ok,

Workout 2 in cycle

Conv dead 105kg -5,3,2

Bent press 22.5kg,- 5,3,2

one hand swings 16kg KB 10 mins continuous.

Goblet squats during 5 min rest between sets 10kg 2 sets of 5.

Stretch & done.

Workout 3 in cycle

Conv dead 110kg-5,3,2

Bent press 25kg-5,3,2

C&J 24 KG KB 10 mins 6 sets 10.

TGU dones in 5 mins rest between sets 6kg 4 singles total.

stretch & done.

Workout 4 in cycle.

conv dead 115kg -5,3,2

bent press 27.5kg-5,3,2

Snatches 20kg kb 10 mins 10x10

Hanging leg raise -4,3

single leg deads weightless done in 5 min rest between sets 5 reps per side x2

stretch & done



 
From the earlier posts it looks like you made decent gains on the deadlift. If you keep banging into the same 5 rep max on DL, and you think you have exhausted the possibilities of fiddling with cycles, there are other things you can try, like doing sumo DL in the light part of the cycle, and switching to conventional for the heavy part. PTTP - Professional has a lot of suggestions. I think many of the programs in it are a little too big of a jump from PTTP, but there is plenty of information that you can take from there and apply it to a simpler program.

If it is the bench and shoulder press gains you are frustrated with, you can substitute those into your workout in place of the bent press.
 
I’m thinking about this:

Was a manual labourer since I was 18 for 8 years.
Been working 12 hour shift work primarily since 18.
My diet isn’t particularly good or my sleep pattern.

Cearball, you’re a hard worker!  If you can find some ways to give yourself some better quality rest, it might do a lot of good for your training

I know, easier said than done though, I will admit to have a lot on work wise at the moment.

The bent press has only been added recently, haven't even completed a cycle with it yet, mainly used barbell OP & bench/floorpress for previous cycles.

If progress continues to stall maybe try the higher volume approach for a few months just to add those last 10 kgs to the dead
 
I think increasing the volume, even a little will help. I do the drop for the second weight (90% of first), but instead of doing one set of 5 I do multiple sets of 5 30 seconds apart. I'm only 8 workouts in, but on bench today I did more for the 5RM than I was when my program was to increase up to a 1RM. More importantly, it feels better.

Good luck!
 
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