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Old Forum Overcoming Overtraining

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CDG1223

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I have gained and helped others in my platoon gain a lot of strength through obeying the principles I've read in Pavel's books over the past 5 years (I'm 24 now). I got up to a 435 lb deadlift (most of which was gained through kettlebell swings), 44kg strict press and a 115lb TGU at 165lb bodyweight from following Pavel's various programs.

However, my cardiovascular endurance, flexibility and physique were lacking so I tried another routine apart from Strongfirst programs. I did "high intensity" bodyweight circuit training for several months and my body did gain dense muscle and got more agility and dexterity, but my mind started getting very foggy. Then I started getting weaker. My motivation, sleep habits, memory and energy levels went way down. After just reading the "Long Rests" article it's clear to me I've been burning rocket fuel for too long on this program.

My question is: has anyone else dealt with this before for such an extended period? What was your experience in recovery? Also, would light aerobic exercise help for recovery or make things worse?
 
Christopher, I recommend "soft" practices like Tai Chi, Qigong, certain kinds of yoga, and/or joint health and flexibility work, plus lots of relaxed walking as best during recovery from overtraining, and they make a nice addition to one's life even when in normal training afterwards.

-S-
 
Thank you for your input, Steve. Intuitively i have a feeling that some type of relaxed exercise would benefit me during recovery, but I wanted to ask others before potentially further damaging myself.

I appreciate your response.

- Chris
 
Chris, somehow "exercise" is something in which we try to do things we can't - it suggests a certain stress.  I prefer to think of what I'm recommending as a restorative practice.  I know it's still exercise of a sort, but the choice of words reflects an attitude - these things are supposed to make you feel better in a non-stressful, non-challenging sort of way.

Best of luck to you.

-S-
 
I like what Pavel says in Simple and Sinister about putting energy into the system instead of draining it during training. I've burned myself out before doing different kinds of programs.  It's refreshing to leave some gas in the tank at the end of a workout instead of going out on fumes.
 
I have a bad habit were i train like 5 times a week for 3 months straight. Some time after 3 months my immune system will eventually give up and I'll suddenly catch a cold or something similar. When i reach that point I'll take a week off training. 7 days straight with no work out and I'll feel fresher than ever.
 
i just took a week off as well after 3 months and I felt really good starting up again after that week, fresh and didn't lose anything
 
I had similar experience with HIIT. After some time, it made me weaker. Then, I had the occasion to talk to a combat sports expert (a kickboxer). He told me that HIIT comes from combat sports training, but mostly without the science of the combat sports. Combat athletes know that at the bottom line, HIIT makes you weaker, whilst giving a short burst of endurance for competition. The cycle that they follow is something in the lines of "2 months of accumulating strength, then 1 month of HIIT".
 
It's been about 6 or 7 days since I've cut out all of my hand balancing practice and all but 2-4 sets of kettlebell lifting and I've focused on complete relaxation (actively relaxing just as you can actively flex) as well as around an hour of light cardiovascular stimulation each day (about 55-60% of my MHR) and I'm already closer to my old self. My memory, wit and motivation are coming back a little each day and my sleep seems to be more restorative.

Thank you Steve, Richard, Inunnguaq and Krzysztof; I've been reading your stuff through this process and it's given me a sure direction as well as hope for getting better. (I've had this problem since October and it's hurting me at school and in relationships) I like that you guys are game to share your knowledge and experience with me.
 
Just as an additional contribution, I did some literature review on high intensity training, those last days. There seem to be two models of a rational use of HIIT. The first one is used by combat athletes and some marathon runners. When a competition is scheduled with reasonable delay, 4 - 6 weeks before that date those athletes switch to a training mode called "direct pre-competitive preparation", including a lot of HIIT. That period of 4 - 6 weeks in this regime is supposed to produce a short (1-2 weeks) window of very high endurance, whilst causing some damage to strength and technique. Past that 1 - 2 week window of peak performance, everything slumps: strength, endurance, even health. One needs a few weeks of recovery after that. The second model is used by ski runners. They have a long season, from December to March (at least in Central Europe, where I live), so the pre-competitive mode of HIIT would be pointless in their case. They practice HIIT (for example dragging a tyre behind them, uphill, roller skating) deeply off season, in summer, in short periods of 2 - 3 weeks, followed and preceded by less intense, more strength and technique focused training.
 
That makes a lot of sense, Krzysztof. I have also read in the past that the primary cardiovascular adaptations during HIIT are within the Sinoatrial node of the heart (also known as the pacemaker), allowing stronger contractions of the heart and higher output levels before becoming sympathetic and restricting blood flow. So HIIT not as much a building process as it is a peaking process. There should already be a strong aerobic and anaerobic base before using HIIT and it should (as you said) only be for limited durations.
The confusing thing for me was that this program that I followed never had my heart rate in an "anaerobic" zone, but because I was continuously performing difficult movements with little rest I burned out nonetheless. I'm learning more and more as I read and experiment with different protocols.
 
another thing most people tend to forget is that most HIIT protocols usually call for much less frequency than regular training! Doing hill sprints 3 or 4 times a week won't do any good except for a very short period and you'll still need to taper off before competition, and usually take a long break after that from HIIT completely

In general the recommendation (if you want to use it for a longer timeframe than competition preparation) is to do a session every 10 to 14 days, not more! Kind of inline with what Pavel recommends with the all-out swings (I know, not real HIIT) in S&S

And as always, the stronger you are (both strength and condition apply here), the better you respond to (and recover from) the huge stressor that proper HIIT actually is

So unless you are strong and in good shape already no point in doing HIIT, you won't have the proper base to actually profit from it, as you will not be able to generate the proper level of intensity anyway (look at what the tabata protocol really prescribes, that is a level of intensity that most people are completely unable to achieve)

Btw, this is my general opinion, not directed at anyone personally here!
 
It is also about being really honest with yourself and learning and adapting to the signals your body is telling you. If only it was that easy! I keep thinking I've got a grip of this now, certainly better than I used to be, but I'm still prone to gross acts of stupidity and ignoring those signals. I'm just back into some light running again now with my new hr monitor and the maffetone method. Was looking forward to a nice run in the woods but felt a bit off. Ah, not to be deterred, stuff to do, progress to make etc......to be floored the next day with a virus. I knew it too, knew it would happen, deep down, something was wrong. My sleeping wasn't great and felt I should rest but no onwards and upwards. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.....had I not ran, would I have recovered by now or even wouldn't have needed to because everything my have been ok? It isn't necessarily doing hiit either, training generally can impact when you go against your body.
 
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