Barbell Overthinking and training

[IMayAgainKnowChris]

I think you can run some variation of what you are proposing for years.

I know I ran 531 using just Bench, Row, Squat for several years and never felt I was missing anything from my programming. It made me question the logic of doing all sorts of things like flyes and lat pulldowns and when I read about the 80/20 rule on Strongfirst my response was "True Dat!"

The way I did it was I did the % for the 5's on Sunday. And then would do the 3 and 531 % on Thursday. This seemed to give a nice balance of size and strength.

If I wanted to do deadlift I might do a ABA BAB like you have said. And I think it would work fine.

Using your exercises:
A Squat, Bench, Row
B Deadlift, Landmine Press, Face Pull

This should leave you with a lot of recovery time and if you really feel the need throw in a giant set for a fun bodypart like biceps from time to time, energy permitting. Or superset a couple of bodyweight exercises for fitness and endurance.

Someone has suggested focusing on Strength for a couple of weeks and then Mass for a couple, running through little phases. I have done this and thought it was successful. It was the way my football program was designed way back in the day and worked for most of the team. We would do 2 week cycles of strength and then 2 weeks of mass, then it would increase to 3 weeks, then 4. Then we'd start at 2 and repeat.

Lots of ways to do your sets and reps. I would work out in the 1-5 range for strength and 6-10 range for mass. 5x5 and 8x3 would work fine. A couple that have not been mentioned but I find them incredibly time efficient:
One of my favourite ways to train for strength is to set a timer and do say 10-15 min of doubles or triples with a 5rm. Week 1 do doubles, Week 2 do doubles and triples, Week 3 do all triples.
My favourite for mass is to pick a weight I can do about 9-10 reps with, do 8... drop the weight 10% do 9... drop the weight 10% do 10.

Did you run 531 with squat and bench the same day then dead/something else another day and alternate? I think that’s what you’re saying. As written it looks like one muscle group per day but From what I’ve read it seems like frequency turned up a little yields better results than working each body part once a week (for most people). Can you elaborate on how you split the training up?

right now I’m doing bench/squat M/F and dead/OHP weds using the bear protocol but was thinking about switching to 531.

 

[solarbear]

Did you run 531 with squat and bench the same day then dead/something else another day and alternate?

I just did 531 on Sun and Thurs: Bench, Row, Squat. That was it. Do whatever you want on Tuesdays. Oddly, it worked really well, especially me being in my 40's extra recovery was good. The only thing I did was a drop set to get a bit extra volume... I'd drop it down to 70%, rep out 1 rep short of failure, rack it for 15 sec, rep out 3-4 more reps on the heavy 3's and 531 days (Thursdays). The drop set became another way to chart progress and work on milestone weights like 2 plates or 2 1/2 plates.

I suppose you could do DL and OHP on Tuesdays if you wanted. I would just do the 5 reps and 5 rep percentages though. Sled, Carries, Kettlebells, Sandbags, or Strongman would be options for Tuesday as well.

 

[Nate]

If you're wanting a 531 template there are dozens to choose from for weekly split, goals, supplemental exercises, etc as well as principles including Dont Major in the Minors approach for accessory work. The 20% has an important role, just keep it where it belongs...

Hypertrophy has a lot of options.
Lighter for more reps
Heavier for fewer reps
Commonality is hard sets.
If you're not advanced (meaning your progress no longer responds to much) then focus on putting in hard sets & it'll work. Plenty of big guys who never understood percentages, volume loads, undulating periodization, etc.

 

[watchnerd]

There are hundreds of ways to do this.... And they can all work! You can run this program for the next decade, making small tweaks here and there, to continue to make progress.

My thoughts based on my experience:
- Start very very simple. Add complexity later when you need it. If you start too complex, right now, then you won't have any tricks left up your sleeve, in the future when you will need them. Honestly, I would just start out without anything extra.
- Sets of ~5 between 60-80% max should be where you live. And train for strength for a long time until you are at your genetic limits. Then train for hypertrophy (and maybe power, or both).
- Accessory lifts are great. But don't just add them to add them. There needs to be a reason. If you have no reason, then skip it and just add more back off sets. For example, sometimes after my working sets are complete Ill add 50% of max to the bar and do 4s x 10r. Or do nothing else. No accessories for cycle 1. And experiment on future cycles with different accessories.
- Example: Over 6 workouts do 5x5 with 1 top sets and ramp up the weight. Session 1 work up to 60%, 2=65%, 3=70%, 4=75%, 5=80%, 6=85%, 7=Deload. Then repeat and when you get to 85% the next time, try to add more reps or an extra 5 lb.... Just try and progress. Do more, whether it is weight, volume, more sets, slower tempo, less rest, etc... This is just an example.

Just do it, go through the motions, and you will figure it out. You will have Eureka moments and think you have it all figured out. Michael Brian Turner of 2021 who can lift 250 lb will have mastered his programming. But then realize that these tricks don't work for the Michael Brian Turner of 2022 who can lift 300 lb, because of new leverages/weak points/injuries/etc...
- Start simple, and try to stay simple. Long term consistency is way more important than having the best program.

You have some great advice from these other folks. And these other folks are a lot smarter than me. But I figured I'd share some very general advice.

Regards,

Eric

Well said.

Another point on accessories:

They're accessories.

They should be of low enough intensity that they don't detract from recovery from your major work.

And they shouldn't be so key that if you skip them from time to time (life, auto-regulation, whatever) it makes a huge difference.

They're polishing work.