Pttp program

Kaizen

Still New to StrongFirst Forum
Hi Pavel, hi everyone,

I'd like to have some advice about my training. I'm doing the pttp program in that way:

Mon : weigthed pull up (bear method)
Tue : overhead press (bear method)
Wed : zercher squat
Thu : weigthed pull up (bear method)
Fri : overhead press (bear method)
Sat : deadlift
Sun : rest day

Is my program good ? If i switch weigthed dips instead of overhead press for one day will it be enough for progress at each move?

Is the bear method better to get big and strong than a 5×5?

I used to be able to do weigthed pull up at 45kg of weight (×5) and 90kg of bodyweigth 2 years ago and now i'm struggle with only 20kg since 2 month is it normal ?

Thank you for your replies.
 

Tarzan

More than 500 posts
Hi @Kaizen

Your plan looks OK to me but I haven't done any barbell work for years, so others here with more recent hands on experience could have some better tips than me.

If you want to do 1 weighted dip day and 1 OHP day maybe you could do a few lighter presses as part of your warmup on the day you do dips and a few bodyweight dips in your warmup on the day you when you do your OHP's. You don't have to lift heavy every time you train and adding few lighter reps will help you drill the groove needed for the weighted work without taxing you too much.

I haven't seen any comparative data between the bear program and 5x5, so I wouldn't hazard a guess there.

45kg added weight for 5 reps @90kg bodyweight is excellent, most people will never achieve that without a lot of dedicated training. I'm not sure what you mean by "since 2 months" do you mean you just started training again two months ago or did the amount you can lift fall to 20kg in the last two months?
 

Bauer

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Apparently you are looking for upper body hypertrophy?

Other than that it is not really PTTP. Pttp is centered on the DL - and with the press being the cherry on top.

I think the exercise selection looks solid but not so much the programming as the bear seems to be harder to recover from.
 

Kaizen

Still New to StrongFirst Forum
Hi guys, thanks for your replies

@Tarzan
I used to change the number of my rep up to 10 as i was unable to do 50kg for 5rep. I used to think that i'll be able to do more rep after that but when i went back to the 5rep set my strength was gone.

@Bauer
Sorry when i say pttp i mean that i do the 2×5 program for each exercise. So do you think my program is too heavy? Maybe that's why i dont progress.
 

Alan Mackey

More than 300 posts
Hi Pavel, hi everyone,

I'd like to have some advice about my training. I'm doing the pttp program in that way:

Mon : weigthed pull up (bear method)
Tue : overhead press (bear method)
Wed : zercher squat
Thu : weigthed pull up (bear method)
Fri : overhead press (bear method)
Sat : deadlift
Sun : rest day

Is my program good ? If i switch weigthed dips instead of overhead press for one day will it be enough for progress at each move?

Is the bear method better to get big and strong than a 5×5?

I used to be able to do weigthed pull up at 45kg of weight (×5) and 90kg of bodyweigth 2 years ago and now i'm struggle with only 20kg since 2 month is it normal ?

Thank you for your replies.
I kind of like your program, but it's almost the opposite of PttP.

PttP is a very high frequency program (practicing the same lifts five days a week), whereas what you are proposing is a low frequency lifting routine (each lift is practiced once a week), pretty close to what Dan John calls One Lift A Day.
 

Bauer

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Hi guys, thanks for your replies

@Tarzan
I used to change the number of my rep up to 10 as i was unable to do 50kg for 5rep. I used to think that i'll be able to do more rep after that but when i went back to the 5rep set my strength was gone.

@Bauer
Sorry when i say pttp i mean that i do the 2×5 program for each exercise. So do you think my program is too heavy? Maybe that's why i dont progress.
I am currently reading Easy Strength and I think it would be a good read for you, especially about the principles. It might be a bit confusing because it features a lot of programs. However, it makes a strong case for frequent submaximal lifting. Like never going beyong 80% of 1RM except on testing days (in Even Easier strength, with ~10 reps/day, 4-6 times per week) or training low volume (2x3 or 3x2 for example) 3x per week with 85-90% of 1RM. It actually makes a case for training 1x10 @ around 50%1RM on some days.

The basic idea is that heavy lifting takes too much out of you in the long run and is more risky. It sort of activates your defense system. Submaximal lifting is easier on the body and CNS. However, it might be harder for your ego :D

Maybe you should try this for, say 3-6 weeks (commit to it!) and see how you feel and how you're progressing.

Edit: Oh, and welcome to the forum!
 
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Kaizen

Still New to StrongFirst Forum
Oops!

Now i'm scared.

So the pttp program can't give is best results if you use it in my way?

I have just check Dan John one lift a day but i'm not experienced enough for tell if the program is good. I like Pavel stuff because that "sound logic".

Ok i'll go on amazon for see about Easy Strength. Is your advice that the 2×5 is too taxing for the CNS if you do it for long? I'm agree with but then when i get 10 reps set i lose my Strength. Maybe that i do something wrong i dont know.

Edit : thank you mate;)
 
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Alan Mackey

More than 300 posts
So the pttp program can't give is best results if you use it in my way?
Any program done "your way" or "my way" it's not that program anymore. It becomes "your program", which may or may not be good.

The program you outlined above might work, but it's not PttP.

PttP is this:

- Pick two exercises. Just two.

- Do them following a 2x5, a 3x3 or even a 5,3,2 set/rep scheme.

- Do it five times a week.

- Never come close to struggling. You should finish the session feeling invigorated, not tired. In fact, if you don't think you could be able to repeat the session right after you finish it, you are doing it wrong.

As you can see, what you are proposing is almost the opposite: six different lifts, lots of sets (if you follow the Bear scheme) and practiced just once a week.

PttP works. OLAD works. But you DO really need to understand why if you want to tweak them and do it "your way".

PttP is low effort, high frequency.

OLAD is moderate-high effort, low frequency.

They are completely different programs, which trigger very different adaptations.

I have just check Dan John one lift a day but i'm not experienced enough for tell if the program is good. I like Pavel stuff because that "sound logic".
Then trust Pavel, following his exact guidelines. The program you suggested was the polar opposite of anything Pavel has written.

Notice I didn't say your program wouldn't work, because it probably would. But it's not PttP and it's not anything Pavel has written. Big difference.

If I were you, I would give your program a try. It's basically OLAD, so we know it works (anything coming from Dan John does).

Ok i'll go on amazon for see about Easy Strength. Is your advice that the 2×5 is too taxing for the CNS if you do it for long? I'm agree with but then when i get 10 reps set i lose my Strength. Maybe that i do something wrong i dont know.
I would purchase the PttP book and read it carefully. It explains why and how the program works.
 
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Bauer

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Na, 2x5 should not be too taxing, at least not with submaximal weights.

But you mentioned the Bear which has you go close to failure with 80% of the day's working weight, which could take 10 or even 20 sets. And THAT would probably be too much.

Edit: @Alan Mackey was faster :)
 

Bauer

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Thinking about this I would make the following suggestion:

Read PTTP thoroughly and commit to the Deadlift and Overhead Press as your two lifts. Train both of them 4-5 times per week. When in doubt, focus on the DL.
And then read these 2 posts by @Steve W. which are very instructive:
PTTP program
PTTP and soreness

As you are interested in weighted pullups you could probably add them 2-3x per week. Focus on low reps. One program that comes to mind is this one:
Pull Ups
It is the "3RM Russian Pullup Program" py Pavel with some modifications by Dan John.

Start with a 3RM or 5RM weight and follow the outline (3,2,1 --> 5,4,3,2,1 --> add weight and repeat). Keep an eye on recovery, especially grip recovery! When in doubt, reduce your pullup volume or load. The DLs will make you stronger anyway.

Try this approach for at least six weeks and then evaluate if it you like the results and the process.
 

Alan Mackey

More than 300 posts
What about Deadlift and Weighted Pull-ups?
It's non "canonical PttP", but it's a pretty close variation. Personally, I'd prefer a lower body pull (any hinge variation) paired with an upper body push (any pressing variation, including dips, push ups), or a lower body push (any squat or lunge variation) paired with an upper body pull (any type of row or pull up, even curls). But that's just me.

Another interesting variation is adding pull ups to "canonical PttP" (this is way better, in my opinion). Same high low daily volume and high frequency philosophy.
 

Kaizen

Still New to StrongFirst Forum
Ok thank you all for your replies. I will take advice and try to incorporate them on my program. Easy Strength looks perfect for me but it's not about building so i'll have to make a choice.

But yeah @Alan Mackey i'll continue at least a few weeks just for see what's happen
 
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