Russian Fighter PUProgram

MissileS

Level 1 Valued Member
Hi I have a few questions, I just started with a 40lb weight attached to me with a chain belt. I have around a 3-4 rep max.. by the end of the april I expect to have 9-12 reps cranked out with that 40lb weight, using the pull up program..

Once I get that max settled, do you guys recommend just moving up to a higher weight to set the reps back down to 3, or continue to develop a little bit more of "endurance" strength with the 40lb, meaning starting with a 9,8,7,6,5 etc.

Will increasing my reps with a bigger weight automatically increase the reps with a lower weight/body weight?

Will increasing my reps with a lower weight make it easier to transition to a heaver weight down the line?

What would be your suggestion of how to proceed forward with the program, I want to keep using it for a few months..
 

Bauer

Level 6 Valued Member
Here is an interesting article by Dan John on it, recommending the 3RM program to prevent elbow issues
 

MissileS

Level 1 Valued Member
I read it , and like it. Do you think working with the 3rep program will increase endurance as well? I know strength has some carry over to endurance, more than endurance has carry over to strength.

Edit: did some research, I think I'll just stick with the 3rep protocol once I am done with 40 lb, I'll move to 50lb, and then 60lb, and then 70lb... I think the 10 pound increments should get me back to a rep range of 3 each time.
 
Last edited:

Bauer

Level 6 Valued Member
Will increasing my reps with a lower weight make it easier to transition to a heaver weight down the line?
Somewhere on the Tim Ferriss podcast, Pavel says so. IIRC he says that you can get up to 25 bw reps with pure strength training - for example sets of 5 in a GTG format (sets spread throughout the day). Beyond that, you would need special strength endurance training. YMMV. It is probably also individual.

Some folks here on the forum recommend to keep a strength reserve in the FPP. So instead of taking a true "grinding" 3RM, take a 5RM for your 3RM plan.

In the end, run 1 or 2 cycles and see how you like it, what your current goals are and what you would lile to adjust (rest days, other exercises, etc.).
 
Last edited:

MissileS

Level 1 Valued Member
Thanks Bauer,

I agree with the assessment of leaving some gas in the tank, not going all out 3 rep max, but doing the protocol with something you can do more like 5 reps...

What kind of "special strength endurance" training is there? I remember that Pavel interview, and he does mention that it gets complicated when you want to get those high numbers in reps with pull ups. I just watched a video of a guy doing 130 clean body weight pull ups unbroken, and another guy who did 72 reps.. I hate to think these guys are genetic freaks, but maybe that is the case? Or is it simply the result of really good programming(and hard work)
 

Bauer

Level 6 Valued Member
What kind of "special strength endurance" training is there?
I don't know. But there are two plans for max pushups in "Beyond Bodybuilding" which might work for pullups, too. They are similar to a structured GTG approach with 20-90% reps of max reps per set, IIRC.
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
Thanks Bauer,

I agree with the assessment of leaving some gas in the tank, not going all out 3 rep max, but doing the protocol with something you can do more like 5 reps...

What kind of "special strength endurance" training is there? I remember that Pavel interview, and he does mention that it gets complicated when you want to get those high numbers in reps with pull ups. I just watched a video of a guy doing 130 clean body weight pull ups unbroken, and another guy who did 72 reps.. I hate to think these guys are genetic freaks, but maybe that is the case? Or is it simply the result of really good programming(and hard work)
I'm a big fan of low reps for pull-ups.

Whilst high reps like you mention seem impressive, what's the purpose? I can't imagine any real world situation where that type of pull-up endurance would be required. Guinness records and parlor tricks...
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

Do you think working with the 3rep program will increase endurance as well?
To a certain extent yes. As a "general rule", strength training transfers better to endurance training than endurance training to strength training. Therefore, once you are strong, endurance comes quite easily.

I used to maintained weighted pull up (40kg added) with a few sets of high rep bodyweight only, with very short rest. Basically, I used to do 3 to 5 sets of max-1 reps, with 25s rest between sets, roughly 3 times a week. The drawback is that you really have to go "all out" on each set to make it work.

I guess it also depends on the goal, but bodyweight training also highly depends on your weight. The lighter you are, the better at pull up you'll be for instance.

From experience, once you can perform 15-20 strict pull up with bodyweight, you can start playing by adding weight. This will easily maintain your 15-20 reps.

There is also this challenge, which may be interesting:

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Last edited:

njrick1

Level 5 Valued Member
Hello,


To a certain extent yes. As a "general rule", strength training transfers better to endurance training than endurance training to strength training. Therefore, once you are strong, endurance comes quite easily.

I used to maintained weighted pull up (40kg added) with a few sets of high rep bodyweight only, with very short rest. Basically, I used to do 3 to 5 sets of max-1 reps, with 25s rest between sets, roughly 3 times a week. The drawback is that you really have to go "all out" on each set to make it work.

I guess it also depends on the goal, but bodyweight training also highly depends on your weight. The lighter you are, the better at pull up you'll be for instance.

From experience, once you can perform 15-20 strict pull up with bodyweight, you can start playing by adding weight. This will easily maintain your 15-20 reps.

There is also this challenge, which may be interesting:

Kind regards,

Pet'
Interesting! Did you feel stress on your tendons doing multiple high rep sets?

Also, your point about increasing reps before adding weight is interesting. With KB presses for example, I always kept reps at 5 or below. I'm gathering that for bodyweight movements, higher reps seem to be more valuable for strength, but I could be wrong...
 

Steve W.

Level 7 Valued Member
Some folks here on the forum recommend to keep a strength reserve in the FPP. So instead of taking a true "grinding" 3RM, take a 5RM for your 3RM plan.
@MissileS
I've done a lot of cycles of the FPP 3RM program following this guideline. Start with a weight that is a tough 5RM. By the end of a cycle it should be a comfortable 5RM instead of a tough one. For sustainable progress, there's also nothing wrong with repeating a cycle, so the tough 5RM become a comfortable 5RM and then a comfortable set of 5 (no longer necessarily an RM).

Use a set of 5 as a test to guide weight increases from cycle to cycle. Don't increase weight by some preplanned or arbitrary amount; stick to a weight that is at most a tough 5RM.

IIRC, the FPP was intended more as a peaking program that would not necessarily be repeated for multiple cycles in a row. So if you want to use it in a sustainable way, you have to moderate the load a bit.

BTW, even when I've been very strong on weighted pullups (BW + 90lbs x 2 reps and BW + 110lbs x 1 rep), I've maxed out around 15 reps with BW alone, although I've never made any effort to specifically train for higher max reps.
 
Last edited:

Blake Nelson

Level 5 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
IRC, the FPP was intended more as a peaking program that would not necessarily be repeated for multiple cycles in a row. So if you want to use it in a sustainable way, you have to moderate the load a bit.
FPP is a peaking program designed to increase your rep max at a given intensity. Running it for multiple cycles is probably not super productive. Peaking is not a long term training strategy.

Blake
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

Interesting! Did you feel stress on your tendons doing multiple high rep sets?
No I did not. Nonetheless, I guess this is due to some kind of "progressive overload". Indeed, the increase in the number of repetitions is something very progressive and quite "smooth". Tendons and joints are strengthenned fairly slowly.

Also, your point about increasing reps before adding weight is interesting. With KB presses for example, I always kept reps at 5 or below. I'm gathering that for bodyweight movements, higher reps seem to be more valuable for strength, but I could be wrong...
RoP is based on this principle: a complete cycle is not built on increasing the weight, but increasing the volume. To make it work, the idea is to find a weight or any resistance "hard enough" to get both difficulty and a lot of volume.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

MissileS

Level 1 Valued Member
Hey Steve,

So I picked a 40lb weight, which I banged out 4 reps.. the 4th rep was awful but I didn't kip, it just took a lot of time to get my chin over the bar..

So I moved to the 3 rep max program... the program so far feels great, I'm in my 2nd week and I do feel getting noticeably stronger, and not really fatigued at all really.. granted I am not doing any other upper body movements, no dips, pushups, or turkish get ups... but hopefully the strength I gain carrys over to some of those movements. So far I'm enjoying this program, and I might run it for a few cycles, hopefully by the end of the summer be in the 70 lb range, my goal is 10-15 reps with a 70 lb weight, I think that will be a great achievement(for me ).

I will definitely listen to your advice about a tough 5 rep max, because I understand if you pick a weight that is literally a 3 rep max, it might burn you out much, and greasing the groove becomes a lot more difficult.
 

Steve W.

Level 7 Valued Member
FPP is a peaking program designed to increase your rep max at a given intensity. Running it for multiple cycles is probably not super productive. Peaking is not a long term training strategy.

Blake
Well, that's why you have to make some adjustments -- such as using a more conservative load (lower than a 3RM) and being conservative in adding load (repeating cycles before adding weight) to use the 3RM program for multiple cycles. But with these adjustments it definitely works. And used this way, it works to progress load over time, staying in the 1-5 rep range.

Hey Steve,

So I picked a 40lb weight, which I banged out 4 reps.. the 4th rep was awful but I didn't kip, it just took a lot of time to get my chin over the bar..
A struggling 4RM is a little heavier than I would recommend starting with, if you plan to run the program multiple times. If you stick with that weight, assess how a set of 5 feels at the end of the cycle. If it's a tough set, think about repeating the cycle with the same weight, or even backing off the load a little for another cycle before adding load again.

Keeping the effort between easy and moderate, and slowly bumping up the load that is a moderate effort, is the best formula for long term progress without burning out or getting hurt.
 

MissileS

Level 1 Valued Member
I agree, I'll most likely have to rerun the cycle with the same weight or slightly lower. Looking back at it, 35 lb would have been perfect, 5 reps with that weight is very manageable for me, I use to do 5 sets of 5 with it easily... with a powerful pull on each rep
 

njrick1

Level 5 Valued Member
Hello,


No I did not. Nonetheless, I guess this is due to some kind of "progressive overload". Indeed, the increase in the number of repetitions is something very progressive and quite "smooth". Tendons and joints are strengthenned fairly slowly.


RoP is based on this principle: a complete cycle is not built on increasing the weight, but increasing the volume. To make it work, the idea is to find a weight or any resistance "hard enough" to get both difficulty and a lot of volume.

Kind regards,

Pet'
Well said! To clarify, would it be accurate to say that a ROP ladder approach be more strength focused while a FPP be more endurance focused?
 

JamesPTA

Level 5 Valued Member
Similar to GTG, I believe FPP is strength program designed to increase you RM. the ladders of pull-ups in ROP will definitely get you strong, however it was documented in ETK that they are meant as an accessory exercise to improve your overhead press.
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

would it be accurate to say that a ROP ladder approach be more strength focused while a FPP be more endurance focused?
FPP is clearly strength-oriented. When you run this program, the improvement of endurance which will appear is some kind of "by-product". Once you get your PR, you just maintain it (daily dose, GTG, whatever...)

Regarding ROP, this is not that simple IMO. Due to the carefully selected weight, you'll gain plenty of strength. This program is at the edge of weight and volume. Clean & Press transfer very well to plenty of "real world" activities. The volume of this program secures plenty of endurance.

Nonetheless, ROP is some kind of peak program, regarding pressing strength. Once you get the PR you aimed for, you basically maintain it with another program. The volume of ROP requires a lot of rest.

In the Dan John's article below, you'll read that once you reach 15 pull ups, then you can focus on something else

In another article from Eric Frohardt, at the end (in the "Fast forward" section), you will read that the regular C&P + Swings maintain pull ups fairly well:

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

njrick1

Level 5 Valued Member
Hello,


FPP is clearly strength-oriented. When you run this program, the improvement of endurance which will appear is some kind of "by-product". Once you get your PR, you just maintain it (daily dose, GTG, whatever...)

Regarding ROP, this is not that simple IMO. Due to the carefully selected weight, you'll gain plenty of strength. This program is at the edge of weight and volume. Clean & Press transfer very well to plenty of "real world" activities. The volume of this program secures plenty of endurance.

Nonetheless, ROP is some kind of peak program, regarding pressing strength. Once you get the PR you aimed for, you basically maintain it with another program. The volume of ROP requires a lot of rest.

In the Dan John's article below, you'll read that once you reach 15 pull ups, then you can focus on something else

In another article from Eric Frohardt, at the end (in the "Fast forward" section), you will read that the regular C&P + Swings maintain pull ups fairly well:

Kind regards,

Pet'
Great info, thank you! I will definitely give the FPP another run soon! As suggested in this post, I will choose a rep max slightly below my actual
rep max
 
Top Bottom