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Other/Mixed Sandow's methods....BS or not....

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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Abishai

Abishai

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I just finished reading Eugene Sandows book on training.
although he did alot of heavy lifts he seemed to be a big proponent of lifting with light weights (not more then 5 lbs) and contracting the muscle hard at the same time.
At first glance this seemed like Bodybuilding style "pump work" that Pavel often derides.
I am wondering if this method of training has a more advanced theory behind it (isometrics ect) or
it is outdated science.
Pavel and SF in general seem to have alot of respect for the old school Physical culturists so i wonder what he and the other SF people think
of this method.
 
Abishai said:
I just finished reading Eugene Sandows book on training.
although he did alot of heavy lifts he seemed to be a big proponent of lifting with light weights (not more then 5 lbs) and contracting the muscle hard at the same time.
At first glance this seemed like Bodybuilding style "pump work" that Pavel often derides.
I am wondering if this method of training has a more advanced theory behind it (isometrics ect) or
it is outdated science.
Pavel and SF in general seem to have alot of respect for the old school Physical culturists so i wonder what he and the other SF people think
of this method.
Click to expand...
I thought it was mostly a marketing ploy.
 
Strength and Conditioning is a fairly new profession, the NSCA for example has only been around since 1978. Prior to the early seventies almost no non-iron sport athletes trained with weights. The sports strength coaches in the early 70s like Boyd Epley and Bill Starr prescribing weights were really trailblazers.

The golden age strong men like Sandow figured out what worked for them and to the degree that they were actually revealing "proprietary" information in their books and courses their methods have value for study and consideration. Some of the information will hold up to modern ideas, some of it won't.

The common thread between "then and now" seems to be that bodybuilding is generally a higher volume and lighter weight activity compared to the "grind-like" lifts in Sandow's day, the two hands anyhow and bent press which are more accurately "strength stunts." Each modality, low rep heavy vs high rep light has its own effect on the metabolic, soft tissue and skeletal systems.

Light lifting has its place. Mike and Meg Stone at ETSU (East Tennessee State U) recommend a 2-3 week program 3-4 times a year of high reps and light weights following heavy peaking and max phases...light bodybuilding/strength endurance essentially. Their research shows across all ETSU sports (including their weightlifters) several exercises performed for 3 sets x 10-12 reps in the 60-70% range 3-4 times a week facilitated CNS and endocrine restoration, improved connective tissue remodeling, promoted some muscular hypertrophy and (important to the sport coaches) lower incidence of injury.

The great American Olympic weightlifter Tommy Kono was also a champion bodybuilder and would spend a mont or two after a heavy weightlifting cycle doing light bodybuilding training.

So maybe try the Sandow program. See what happens?
 
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Abishai said:
I just finished reading Eugene Sandows book on training.
although he did alot of heavy lifts he seemed to be a big proponent of lifting with light weights (not more then 5 lbs) and contracting the muscle hard at the same time.
At first glance this seemed like Bodybuilding style "pump work" that Pavel often derides.
I am wondering if this method of training has a more advanced theory behind it (isometrics ect) or
it is outdated science.
Pavel and SF in general seem to have alot of respect for the old school Physical culturists so i wonder what he and the other SF people think
of this method.
Click to expand...
I think it is a valid possible path. I think not many could stumble upon the finer points needed to make it work.

Personally, if one is doing serious overcoming iso, a relatively modest amount and intensity of loaded movement will produce lopsided response.
 
randyh said:
The great American Olympic weightlifter Tommy Kono was also a champion bodybuilder and would spend a mont or two after a heavy weightlifting cycle doing light bodybuilding training.
Click to expand...

I've had pretty good longevity in weightlifting by following Tommy Kono's model and doing a full season (12 weeks) of weightlifting-oriented bodybuilding after competition.
 
Abishai said:
I just finished reading Eugene Sandows book on training.
although he did alot of heavy lifts he seemed to be a big proponent of lifting with light weights (not more then 5 lbs) and contracting the muscle hard at the same time.
At first glance this seemed like Bodybuilding style "pump work" that Pavel often derides.
I am wondering if this method of training has a more advanced theory behind it (isometrics ect) or
it is outdated science.
Pavel and SF in general seem to have alot of respect for the old school Physical culturists so i wonder what he and the other SF people think
of this method.
Click to expand...

There was less difference between bodybuilding and strength training back in those days. The two don't need to be mutually exclusive, and I think if you read the other responses here, you'll see that quite a lot of combinations of these things can work. Those old timers _looked_ strong and _were_ strong, and we still have people like that today, e.g., our own @Fabio Zonin. The problem, such as it is, is when some people work to look strong without actually being strong.

-S-
 
I heard an interesting interview with Dr. Conor Heffernan. IIRC He said that Sandow marketed a special dumbbell with a spring loaded handle. The idea was to squeeze the spring as you exercise to help with tension. During the interview he alluded that this was largely a marketing gimmick.

I would venture that to use light weights and high tension muscle contraction you would have to first be very familiar with resistance training and have good mind muscle connection
 
Abishai said:
I just finished reading Eugene Sandows book on training.
although he did alot of heavy lifts he seemed to be a big proponent of lifting with light weights (not more then 5 lbs) and contracting the muscle hard at the same time.
At first glance this seemed like Bodybuilding style "pump work" that Pavel often derides.
I am wondering if this method of training has a more advanced theory behind it (isometrics ect) or
it is outdated science.
Pavel and SF in general seem to have alot of respect for the old school Physical culturists so i wonder what he and the other SF people think
of this method.
Click to expand...
Maybe it's more like building a good mind-muscle connection than bodybuilding pump training. Westside people do extra workout, sometime it's band pull down with very thin band for high rep for multiple sets (which is similar to what you have described above). They said it help recovery and gain some muscle at weak areas.
 
What I found after gravitating to lower weight / higher reps due to chronic health conditions was that the sensations involved in lifting heavy, particularly the intense strain you experience when first engaging with a weight close to your 1RM, became unfamiliar to me very quickly. It was that rather than any decline in muscle or technique that I believe first impacted my ability to lift above, say, my 3RM. I just wasn't comfortable lifting heavy any more. In that regard I doubt a serious lifter would lose much if anything from periods spent training on lighter weights provided higher weights continued to feature somewhat
 
LukeV said:
I doubt a serious lifter would lose much if anything from periods spent training on lighter weights provided higher weights continued to feature somewhat
Click to expand...
PlanStrong addresses this. Also competing twice a year addresses this, albeit differently.

-S-
 
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