Kettlebell Scheduling additional hypertrophy sessions amidst all-around training.

Adachi · May 30, 2023

All this talk about the importance of muscle mass got me to include some hypertrophy work in this cycle.

In order to fit my training into my life, I'm currently fitting my training into my lunch hour, Monday thru Friday

So I have a weekly schedule that I started following a couple of weeks ago, and there's a hitch in it: A lot of soreness for most of the week.

It's felt really tough the past 2 weeks. (maybe that's something I shouldn't be paying much mind to.)
Going into the third week, I'm thinking of switching something up, and it occurs to me: is this something that is so basic that it usually doesn't require explanation?

I had scheduled my weeks like this.

Iron Cardio (IC) + Hypertrophy (H)

M (IC)	T (H) Light	W (IC)	T (H) Heavy	F
30	15/3	20	15/4	15
40	15/3	20	15/5	20
20	15/3	30	15/6	30
40	15/3	30	20/3	40
40	15/3	20	20/3	40
40	15/3	20	20/4	30
40	15/3	40	20/4	40
30	15/3	30	20/5	40
20	15/3	30	20/5	20
40	15/3	40	20/6	30

Schedule subject to change

Iron Cardio sessions were based on dice rolling, and on this chart, they have an estimated or specified number of sets shown in the graph. most of the Iron cardio sessions are single Chains of Clean-Press-Squat with the 32kg with a mild amount of doubles, or 40kg bell work mixed in.

Hypertrophy sessions are sets of 15 32kg Swings and explosive Pushups at 5 Minute intervals.
0:00; 15 Swings
5:00; 15 Pushups
Repeat ...

I am at or around simple timeless strength with the 32kg bell, and I can complete a 015 Victor protocol 10x10 session with my hands catching a small amount of air all the way through the 100th rep.

So after the first two weeks, the Thursdays and Fridays have been really tough.
Would one tend to use the freshness of the weekend to hit the heavier session earlier in the week, and pad the stimulus with a lighter session later in the week?
Or, would one tend to save the heavier session for later in the week and harvest the additional recovery time from that session?

stated differently: TUESDAY -> Thursday -OR- Tuesday -> THURSDAY?
should I flip the light and heavy days given the schedule to be fresher going into the Tuesday Heavy Hypertrophy day?

Or, should I keep the light day where it is, and enjoy the weekend's recovery from a hard week?

or, Third option - is this not the smartest idea, and there are other more glaring issues?
rephrased: is the reason it feels like a bit too much because it's a bit too much, and there's a more reasonable way to approach this?

or, Fourth option - only time will tell, suck it up buttercup. it's only a couple of months.

renegadenate · May 30, 2023

Adachi said:
All this talk about the importance of muscle mass got me to include some hypertrophy work in this cycle.

In order to fit my training into my life, I'm currently fitting my training into my lunch hour, Monday thru Friday

So I have a weekly schedule that I started following a couple of weeks ago, and there's a hitch in it: A lot of soreness for most of the week.

The first week of doing something new will definitely result in soreness. However, it should dissipate the second and third weeks. If not, you're definitely doing too much!

Adachi said:
It's felt really tough the past 2 weeks. (maybe that's something I shouldn't be paying much mind to.)
Going into the third week, I'm thinking of switching something up, and it occurs to me: is this something that is so basic that it usually doesn't require explanation?

I had scheduled my weeks like this.

Iron Cardio (IC) + Hypertrophy (H)

M (IC)
T (H) Light
W (IC)
T (H) Heavy
F
30
15/3
20
15/4
15
40
15/3
20
15/5
20
20
15/3
30
15/6
30
40
15/3
30
20/3
40
40
15/3
20
20/3
40
40
15/3
20
20/4
30
40
15/3
40
20/4
40
30
15/3
30
20/5
40
20
15/3
30
20/5
20
40
15/3
40
20/6
30

Schedule subject to change

Iron Cardio sessions were based on dice rolling, and on this chart, they have an estimated or specified number of sets shown in the graph. most of the Iron cardio sessions are single Chains of Clean-Press-Squat with the 32kg with a mild amount of doubles, or 40kg bell work mixed in.

Hypertrophy sessions are sets of 15 32kg Swings and explosive Pushups at 5 Minute intervals.
0:00; 15 Swings
5:00; 15 Pushups
Repeat ...

I am at or around simple timeless strength with the 32kg bell, and I can complete a 015 Victor protocol 10x10 session with my hands catching a small amount of air all the way through the 100th rep.

This looks like you're actually lifting heavy five days/week based on the weights and volume you're using for IC and hypertrophy.

Adachi said:
So after the first two weeks, the Thursdays and Fridays have been really tough.
Would one tend to use the freshness of the weekend to hit the heavier session earlier in the week, and pad the stimulus with a lighter session later in the week?
Or, would one tend to save the heavier session for later in the week and harvest the additional recovery time from that session?

It can work either way. Most of the time, I schedule Monday as a heavier day (H-L-M). Sometimes, I make Friday the heavy day (M-L-H). Either way, there is no Light day on Monday or Friday because you don't need or want a light day before or after two rest days.

Adachi said:
stated differently: TUESDAY -> Thursday -OR- Tuesday -> THURSDAY?
should I flip the light and heavy days given the schedule to be fresher going into the Tuesday Heavy Hypertrophy day?

Or, should I keep the light day where it is, and enjoy the weekend's recovery from a hard week?

or, Third option - is this not the smartest idea, and there are other more glaring issues?
rephrased: is the reason it feels like a bit too much because it's a bit too much, and there's a more reasonable way to approach this?

or, Fourth option - only time will tell, suck it up buttercup. it's only a couple of months.

You really can't go wrong with BuiltStrong Minimalist (I cannot recommend it enough). There are numerous options in exercise choices and volume. And the plan perfectly waves (better than what you're trying to do) so you don't get burned out.

Also, I've only been sore after a few of the higher volume days. And that was in addition to two days/week of my Murph sessions.

And you can still perform IC 1-2x/week or S&S or A+A. But you may want to make your IC sessions a little lighter.

renegadenate · May 30, 2023

If you're not ready to invest in BuiltStrong Minimalist, you could always give this a try. It doesn't have as many options or variability, but it will give you a good taste of how it works.

Simple Strength for Difficult Times: An 8-Week Progressive Plan | StrongFirst

Restricted gym access or limited equipment doesn't have to put brakes on staying strong. Here's a strength plan for anywhere.

www.strongfirst.com

renegadenate · May 30, 2023

There's also this version if you like Die variability:

Screenshot_20230408-144640_Yahoo Mail.jpg

bluejeff · May 30, 2023

I have a couple cents based on my own ongoing higher-frequency approach, for whatever it is worth:

Adachi said:
So after the first two weeks, the Thursdays and Fridays have been really tough.
Would one tend to use the freshness of the weekend to hit the heavier session earlier in the week, and pad the stimulus with a lighter session later in the week?
Or, would one tend to save the heavier session for later in the week and harvest the additional recovery time from that session?

The traditional SF heavy/light/medium approach springs to mind. Somewhere, in one of Pavel's books, he writes something along the lines of "Russian sports scientists have found their athletes to be their strongest on Wednesdays." I'm heavily paraphrasing there, but the gist, I believe, is that a significant amount of these athletes performed best in the middle of their training week. If anyone knows what I am talking about and thinks I am misrepresenting it, feel free to correct me.

This follows my own experience when I followed the H/L/M approach. I was always stronger and able to do more on the second of three training days, instead of the first day after resting. My guess is that it has something to do with the nervous system. So, one approach you could try is to keep the beginning of your training week "medium" and ramp it up to your heavy/hypertrophy day in the middle. Then, immediately follow that day with a light day, and more or less auto-regulate the end of your week.

Another approach entirely:
Use Chad Waterbury's high frequency approach.
I posted this link a while back, but the plan contained within is pretty technical. It's also aging a bit, and I have seen him change his approach since. So I will give a simplified approach and a couple variations below.

The HFT Handbook

Ramp up the training to ramp up the gains. Here’s how to turn up the frequency without getting burnt out.

www.t-nation.com

The short of it is this:

-Pick one muscle group at a time to focus on improving. After getting what you want for one group, shift to another.
-Pick an exercise that allows for unrestricted movement (i.e. single arm presses, gymnastic rings that allow freedom of movement, etc), or at least one that you know you can do a lot of without your joints complaining.
-OR you can also pick various exercises that hit the same muscles (dips, pushups, tricep extensions, for example) and do a different one each day
-Keep your hypertrophy training to a separate time of day from your other training
-To choose frequency and progress:
-He recommends starting with every other day, or something like three days/week
-If you're recovering alright, start addding days, up to 5-6

-Depending on what version of his HFT protocol you read, he recommends one of the following:

adding reps slowly over time
picking a weight/intensity range that allows for fairly high repetitions to get quite close to failure (IIRC 15-30 reps!) and doing only one set per day.

The reason I give his approach is that given you are trying to fit things into your schedule, I think it would allow for quick and short sessions that might help your goals. You could do IC 2-3 days a week and easily add in the above style approach without overworking yourself. Waterbury's HFT approach is sort of like one step up from greasing the groove, so it works well for busy schedules.

One more approach:
My understaning of the Q&D "Victor" approach is that while it is geared "towards" hypertrophy, it's not a hypertrophy plan. I'd be open to having my mind changed, but hear me out. I posted a whole thread about mechanical tension and hypertrophy, and while some don't remain convinced (they think there MUST be a metabolic component, but I'm not entirely sold on that yet), I think there's something to be learned.

Other/Mixed - Mechanical tension for hypertrophy

Rather than hijacking the thread from which I quote Watchnerd below, I figured I'd just start a thread about this. We often hear that the three main drivers behind hypertrophy are metabolic stress, muscle damage, and mechanical tension. However, more recent research has been narrowing in on...

www.strongfirst.com

This is Chris Beardsley's work, if you don't want to dig through an old thread:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/41551479

The TLDR:
Rather than going for hundreds of reps of pushups and swings for hypertrophy, I suggest just doing hypertrophy-focused work. High volume work has it's place, but more and more coaches are leaning towards getting what you need to stimulate growth and then calling it good. Given your busy schedule, doing hundreds of pushups and swings might not be the best method for hypertrophy when you could potentially be doing less and getting more. That said, if you enjoy it, by all means carry on.

High muscular tension and getting kind of close to failure (I am intentionally using loose language there) seem to be the cutting edge of hypertrophy training these days. If you want aerobic conditioning AND hypertrophy, I would train those things rather than look for something that "does everything." Do your IC sessions as written, and add like ONE day of HIGH TENSION hypertrophy work for each muscle group per week. If you need to, make the IC "more cardio" and "less iron" to recover better.

You could even do one hypertrophy exercise each day, cycling through muscle groups, as long as it doesn't interfere with the next day's training.

Alright, at this point I'm about to seriously derail myself. I hope something there is useful!

Bauer · May 30, 2023

Adachi said:
All this talk about the importance of muscle mass got me to include some hypertrophy work in this cycle.

In order to fit my training into my life, I'm currently fitting my training into my lunch hour, Monday thru Friday

So I have a weekly schedule that I started following a couple of weeks ago, and there's a hitch in it: A lot of soreness for most of the week.

It's felt really tough the past 2 weeks. (maybe that's something I shouldn't be paying much mind to.)
Going into the third week, I'm thinking of switching something up, and it occurs to me: is this something that is so basic that it usually doesn't require explanation?

I had scheduled my weeks like this.

Iron Cardio (IC) + Hypertrophy (H)

M (IC)
T (H) Light
W (IC)
T (H) Heavy
F
30
15/3
20
15/4
15
40
15/3
20
15/5
20
20
15/3
30
15/6
30
40
15/3
30
20/3
40
40
15/3
20
20/3
40
40
15/3
20
20/4
30
40
15/3
40
20/4
40
30
15/3
30
20/5
40
20
15/3
30
20/5
20
40
15/3
40
20/6
30

Schedule subject to change

Iron Cardio sessions were based on dice rolling, and on this chart, they have an estimated or specified number of sets shown in the graph. most of the Iron cardio sessions are single Chains of Clean-Press-Squat with the 32kg with a mild amount of doubles, or 40kg bell work mixed in.

Hypertrophy sessions are sets of 15 32kg Swings and explosive Pushups at 5 Minute intervals.
0:00; 15 Swings
5:00; 15 Pushups
Repeat ...

I am at or around simple timeless strength with the 32kg bell, and I can complete a 015 Victor protocol 10x10 session with my hands catching a small amount of air all the way through the 100th rep.

So after the first two weeks, the Thursdays and Fridays have been really tough.
Would one tend to use the freshness of the weekend to hit the heavier session earlier in the week, and pad the stimulus with a lighter session later in the week?
Or, would one tend to save the heavier session for later in the week and harvest the additional recovery time from that session?

stated differently: TUESDAY -> Thursday -OR- Tuesday -> THURSDAY?
should I flip the light and heavy days given the schedule to be fresher going into the Tuesday Heavy Hypertrophy day?

Or, should I keep the light day where it is, and enjoy the weekend's recovery from a hard week?

or, Third option - is this not the smartest idea, and there are other more glaring issues?
rephrased: is the reason it feels like a bit too much because it's a bit too much, and there's a more reasonable way to approach this?

or, Fourth option - only time will tell, suck it up buttercup. it's only a couple of months.

So many options. I have enjoyed BuiltStrong minimalist. The newsletter version works well, too.

That being said:
You could try to add 1 interrupted set to each of you IC days as a hypertrophy finisher, and skip 015 sessions. Pick a 10-16 TRM variation, do half the reps with it (5-8), rest 30 seconds, and repeat this procedure until you cannot complete another full set. (There was a special report on the newsletter on it.) For example, with Pushups or Curls (Crush Curls with a KB). This way, you will get a lot of additional volume in a controlled way, going to failure only once. I am currently experimenting with this myself, based on Fabio's recommendations. Last week I did 42 reps with my 16 TRM bell in one interrupted set. Worth a try for a few weeks!

On top of that you could try to add some doubles work to your IC rotation to get some more systemic load and heavier squats, possibly doing squat ladders.

Adachi · May 30, 2023

Bauer said:
and skip 015 sessions

To clarify I am not currently using the victor protocol plan 015, I'm using 15 rep sets that I'll be increasing to 20 rep sets .

james_1127 · May 30, 2023

Have you tried the ladders & traveling 2s versions etc of IC? 40min of 2 reps with roughly an OTM pace gives you 80ish reps of squats, presses or cleans... I would assume that's solid volume for hypertrophy IMO thus dropping the extra protocol

I would do this

M IC hvy day with traveling 2/moving target etc with double bells 30-40 min

W IC light, classic version for 15-20 min

F IC med, classic version for 30min

On the off days hit some solid deadlifts (BB variations)

Adachi · May 30, 2023

james_1127 said:
Have you tried the ladders & traveling 2s versions etc of IC?

Lucky me I have been able to do press focused and traveling 2s

For hypertrophy the results were less concentrated but still positive

SUOMI-PUKU · May 31, 2023

You may already be set on them for whatever reason but: Are swings and explosive push ups the best choice for hypertrophy?

I thought grinds were better in that regard.

renegadenate · May 31, 2023

bluejeff said:
The traditional SF heavy/light/medium approach springs to mind. Somewhere, in one of Pavel's books, he writes something along the lines of "Russian sports scientists have found their athletes to be their strongest on Wednesdays." I'm heavily paraphrasing there, but the gist, I believe, is that a significant amount of these athletes performed best in the middle of their training week. If anyone knows what I am talking about and thinks I am misrepresenting it, feel free to correct me.

Yes, this is in Enter the Kettlebell talking about the ROP schedule where Wednesday and Thursday are the best days for your Heavy season.

When I Deadlift, I schedule it on my Wednesday session for this reason.

tigheguy · May 31, 2023

This is a great idea I wish I was able to provide some advice for you

Bauer said:
So many options. I have enjoyed BuiltStrong minimalist. The newsletter version works well, too.

That being said:
You could try to add 1 interrupted set to each of you IC days as a hypertrophy finisher, and skip 015 sessions. Pick a 10-16 TRM variation, do half the reps with it (5-8), rest 30 seconds, and repeat this procedure until you cannot complete another full set. (There was a special report on the newsletter on it.) For example, with Pushups or Curls (Crush Curls with a KB). This way, you will get a lot of additional volume in a controlled way, going to failure only once. I am currently experimenting with this myself, based on Fabio's recommendations. Last week I did 42 reps with my 16 TRM bell in one interrupted set. Worth a try for a few weeks!

On top of that you could try to add some doubles work to your IC rotation to get some more systemic load and heavier squats, possibly doing squat ladders.

Do you know what newsletter this was ? or is there anymore info on this ?

renegadenate · May 31, 2023

tigheguy said:
This is a great idea I wish I was able to provide some advice for you

Do you know what newsletter this was ? or is there anymore info on this ?

There was a PDF file that was available when they talked about it.

Here's the email:

Screenshot_20230531-081720_Yahoo Mail.jpg

tigheguy · May 31, 2023

renegadenate said:
There was a PDF file that was available when they talked about it.

Here's the email:

View attachment 21552

Thank you I found the email, there is always gold in the emails and sometimes I miss them.

renegadenate · May 31, 2023

https://www.strongfirst.com/article-documents/Interrupted-Sets.pdf

renegadenate · May 31, 2023

tigheguy said:
Thank you I found the email, there is always gold in the emails and sometimes I miss them.

I screenshot the ones with good tips and have them in a StrongFirst folder on my phone so I can refer back to them easily.

Adachi · May 31, 2023

SUOMI-PUKU said:
You may already be set on them for whatever reason but: Are swings and explosive push ups the best choice for hypertrophy?

I thought grinds were better in that regard.

I don't find this to be all things to all my wants needs and desires.
it's just something that I hope might work.
honestly, I wrote this based on a Strong Endurance template.

maybe I should switch to grinds.

EDIT:
I guess one of the problems I'm faced with is equipment selection.
I have a set of single bells 16kg to 48kg in 8kg jumps.
currently, at work, I have a 32kg bell and a 40kg bell.

So, part of my plan is to work within that limitation, as well.

EDIT2:
lucky me, I have noticed a size increase in my thighs, chest, and arms after the first 2 weeks.

Keith B · May 31, 2023

james_1127 said:
Have you tried the ladders & traveling 2s versions etc of IC? 40min of 2 reps with roughly an OTM pace gives you 80ish reps of squats, presses or cleans... I would assume that's solid volume for hypertrophy IMO thus dropping the extra protocol

I would do this

M IC hvy day with traveling 2/moving target etc with double bells 30-40 min

W IC light, classic version for 15-20 min

F IC med, classic version for 30min

On the off days hit some solid deadlifts (BB variations)

Hi, I've been wondering about something along these lines for a while now. Would you DL on both days (I intended training 3 days IC and another 2 days on swings and or snatches.) or 1 DL day and the other swings and or snatches or some sort of combination? Thanks.

james_1127 · May 31, 2023

Keith B said:
Hi, I've been wondering about something along these lines for a while now. Would you DL on both days (I intended training 3 days IC and another 2 days on swings and or snatches.) or 1 DL day and the other swings and or snatches or some sort of combination? Thanks.

Whenever I want to DL on a maintenance/low volume plan I use the plan from the "stop fearing heavy weights" article from Fabio... It's 3x a week but really low volume, some days you only do 5 total reps

I would DL before your IC sessions

DL low volume
*Rest 5ish minutes*
IC sessions

Keith B · May 31, 2023

james_1127 said:
Whenever I want to DL on a maintenance/low volume plan I use the plan from the "stop fearing heavy weights" article from Fabio... It's 3x a week but really low volume, some days you only do 5 total reps

I would DL before your IC sessions

DL low volume
*Rest 5ish minutes*
IC sessions

Got it thanks. I'll search for that article. Reason for this is I'm getting an Olympic bar off my wife for my 60th on Sunday and would like to be using it obviously. Thanks

Kettlebell Scheduling additional hypertrophy sessions amidst all-around training.

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