all posts post new thread

Kettlebell Serious Question: Simplicity or Variety?

jayjo

jayjo

Level 6 Valued Member
I think it was Arnold who used to say "confuse the muscle".
But Pavel has us doing just 1 or 2 moves and getting progressively stronger.
Now I realize Arnold was going for hypertrophy and Pavel for strength.
But I wonder....if my goal is stay strong (and look strong) as I get older:

Is it better to:
Get stronger and stronger at just a few movements?
or keep things fresh and keep my body confused and never really adapt?

For example, I have not done a 1-arm Swing in almost a year due to some elbow issues.
I just did them yesterday and I was shocked at how difficult it seemed, how light I had to go.
And I know if I continue doing them the weight will go up quickly, but maybe its better to only do them like once every 2-weeks and let my body struggle and not adapt. ?????????
 
The way I see it, I'm approaching strength training as a means hopefully setting myself up to be as healthy as possible for as long as possible. I'm not worried about setting records or competing, but I do set strength goals for myself. I'm trying to figure out what is "strong enough" for me.

On the other hand, the human is made to move in so many different ways and I have fun exploring the movement side of things whether that's picking up heavy stuff, crawling around on the ground, impressing my coworkers with my ability to sit in a deep squat, walking long distances, the list goes on.

Ok, what am I trying to say here? Strength is a part of movement. I love focusing on one or two things at a time, but also life is long (hopefully), so I'm gonna spend a lot of time changing what one or two things I'm focusing on at any given time and try to move well in as many ways as I can, hopefully until the day I'm no longer of this earth. I have to imagine my priorities in training will change as I get older as well. No way around that.

We're all gonna have different goals and ideas, these are just my two cents.
 
I would say it comes down to doing the thing you like to do. If simplicity keeps you coming back, great, if variety keeps you training, just as good. Personally, I believe that continuity is key, "show up, do the work" (as long as you are meeting whatever goals you may have). I prefer simple programs, but I rotate them in six to eight week blocks, but nothing is ever complex, I just try to stick with the "push, pull, hinge, squat" framework.
 
jayjo said:
I think it was Arnold who used to say "confuse the muscle".
But Pavel has us doing just 1 or 2 moves and getting progressively stronger.
Now I realize Arnold was going for hypertrophy and Pavel for strength.
But I wonder....if my goal is stay strong (and look strong) as I get older:

Is it better to:
Get stronger and stronger at just a few movements?
or keep things fresh and keep my body confused and never really adapt?

For example, I have not done a 1-arm Swing in almost a year due to some elbow issues.
I just did them yesterday and I was shocked at how difficult it seemed, how light I had to go.
And I know if I continue doing them the weight will go up quickly, but maybe its better to only do them like once every 2-weeks and let my body struggle and not adapt. ?????????
Click to expand...
Simplicity works for me. 90%(or even more) of my yearly workouts consist of the same 6-7 barbell exercises.
I rarely do other exercises, I just periodise the volume, intensity and frequency.
 
jayjo said:
I think it was Arnold who used to say "confuse the muscle".
But Pavel has us doing just 1 or 2 moves and getting progressively stronger.
Now I realize Arnold was going for hypertrophy and Pavel for strength.
But I wonder....if my goal is stay strong (and look strong) as I get older:

Is it better to:
Get stronger and stronger at just a few movements?
or keep things fresh and keep my body confused and never really adapt?

For example, I have not done a 1-arm Swing in almost a year due to some elbow issues.
I just did them yesterday and I was shocked at how difficult it seemed, how light I had to go.
And I know if I continue doing them the weight will go up quickly, but maybe its better to only do them like once every 2-weeks and let my body struggle and not adapt. ?????????
Click to expand...
It all depends on what your goals are. Stagnation is a real problem, as are overuse injuries. But, if your objective is strength, variety should involve rotating among close exercise variations (flat bench, incline bench, floor press, close grip, medium grip, wide grip...).

But if you just enjoy lifting or it's GPP for another sport, variety might mean something wild (twenty types of curls, twenty types of presses...).
 
Luis T. Gonzalez said:
I mean just look how impressive a weightlifter looks and moves and primarily focuses on snatch, clean and jerk, and front squat. Maybe you don't have the mobility to perform those movements with a barbell but even with "just" a kettlebell they could make you a very impressive specimen.
Click to expand...
I always think about this.
If I remember correctly, there is a time when Dan John only did weightlifting, for 7 years, for his sports, and it went well for him.

Pavel reiterates here : Introducing the StrongFirst “WOD” | StrongFirst
"Choose two to three lifts or exercises that you desire to excel at. [...] Dedicate years to master the technique of your chosen lifts."
 
Not kettlebell specific, but I see a place for both.

Right now, I am pretty well doing the same strength work a couple times a week on a 3-4 week wave with respect to loading.

In the past, one thing I really liked was doing the Daily Dose Deadlift program where everything was based on high frequency deadlifting at modest volumes / intensities. On the surface, it's simple. However, I programmed in my own variety. On the 75% days, I would do a slight variation almost every day as the loads were more than reasonable enough to facilitate it - 1.5" "block" pulls from mats, .75" "block" pulls from mats, .75" deficit deadlifts, 1.5" deficit deadlifts, flat shoes, oly shoes, etc.

On the heavy days, pulls were always from the floor in flat shoes.

This was my own little experiment that again, I really enjoyed, and am contemplating doing again in the near future.
 
jayjo said:
Is it better to:
Get stronger and stronger at just a few movements?
or keep things fresh and keep my body confused and never really adapt?
Click to expand...

Honestly, if you look at PlanStrong, you'll see elements of both, and if you look at BuiltStrong, you'll see the same but tilted more towards hypertrophy. There is a right amount of same-but-different.

If your goals are to look strong and be strong, do what it takes to get you there. I can tell you from being a follower of StrongFirst for 20+ years, and having no lifting experience before that except some machines in the gym, I am convinced that, for me, the right "mix" is strength and mobility work, and eating in a way that allows me to maintain muscle while keep my bodyfat low enough to show it.

As to whether to focus on strength or hypertrophy, I've given my preference here many times - strength is a skill and best approached as such. A limited selection of exercises, studied and practiced with a deep dive, will have tremendous carryover. I get variously asked if I'm a runner (my build), a dancer (my hip and hamstring mobility), do yoga (I can do splits), study martial arts (I did that for a few years a few decades ago) - whatever I look like comes from following the StrongFirst approach.

-S-
 
I'd say it depends on what exactly do we mean by variation.

For example, I really like the squat. I do a lot of squats. Someone could say that I do few exercises.

However, I do the back squat, front squat, box squat, zercher squat. I'll use a straight bar, a bow bar, a safety squat bar. I'll add different amounts of bands or chains. Etc.

In my mind, it's all simple. But there's a lot of in built variety.
 
jayjo said:
I think it was Arnold who used to say "confuse the muscle".
Click to expand...
Yes Arnold said that pertaining to bodybuilding and I think maybe he was speaking about getting contest ready.

Yet Arnold when he started out built his strength and a lot of his size doing the two arm press, clean and jerk and snatch.

“The most important thing, and I was very fortunate that I started in a weightlifting club. So, we were not allowed to do bodybuilding exercises until we have proven that we have done our training for weightlifting, for Olympic lifting.”

“So it was the two arm press at that time, then it was the two arm clean and jerk, and the two arm snatch. So those were the three disciplines that we had to practice and then on top I practiced also powerlifting, the benchpress. There were actually four disciplines, the bench press, the squat, the deadlift, and also the cheating curl, so you are swinging again to get it up there” Schwarzenegger said.

I go to a gym that’s like being in the land of giants. Some of the guys are in and out in 45 minutes to an hour.

So I guess we need to progress one way or another. The science 100 years ago and the science 100 years from now was and will be 1-5 reps for strength and 8 to 12 for hypertrophy despite what Doctor Dootlediggers research says.

My apologies if this post is off topic. Presently I am practicing brain confusion.
 
Last edited:
Luis T. Gonzalez said:
I mean just look how impressive a weightlifter looks and moves and primarily focuses on snatch, clean and jerk, and front squat. Maybe you don't have the mobility to perform those movements with a barbell but even with "just" a kettlebell they could make you a very impressive specimen.
Click to expand...
Isn't lifters who only do that looks like dyel and lifters from China/Korea with bunch of hypertrophy work looks like Greek God's?
 
jayjo said:
keep things fresh and keep my body confused and never really adapt?
Click to expand...
In defend of this idea: I just listen to Laura Phelps on Dave Tate's Table Talk. She has her lifters doing different max effort every weeks for the whole year. Even secondary exercises and accessories rotates weekly too. Cleary exercise rotations can work.
 
Luis T. Gonzalez said:
I mean just look how impressive a weightlifter looks and moves and primarily focuses on snatch, clean and jerk, and front squat. Maybe you don't have the mobility to perform those movements with a barbell but even with "just" a kettlebell they could make you a very impressive specimen.
Click to expand...

Nah.

Ilyin Ilin looks like DYEL.

Chinese weightlifters who do tons of bodybuilding accessories look yoked.
 
Hung said:
Isn't lifters who only do that looks like dyel and lifters from China/Korea with bunch of hypertrophy work looks like Greek God's?
Click to expand...
Good point. Still pretty good exercises though. I think whatever you do, putting in some machine and dumbbell work for aesthetics will give you the look while putting on the strength.
 
watchnerd said:
Nah.

Ilyin Ilin looks like DYEL.

Chinese weightlifters who do tons of bodybuilding accessories look yoked.
Click to expand...

Did he look like that even during competitive season, like when he had to take the better/working supplements?
 
Great feedback on my questions thank you everyone. It sounds like most people think sticking to basic simple movements is the way to go. I'm ok with that. But I do get bored and like to introduce new ideas. I do a Mace workout once or twice a week and although its challenging mentally and I'm sure it brings me fitness, I certainly don't get a pump afterwards. I will stick with Kettlebell Presses, Kettlebell Swings, Club Sheild Casts, Circles and Pendulums.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom