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Kettlebell SFG1 benefits for non-professional

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It breaks my heart that I do not have the proper skills, strength and conditioning to participate in the SFG1 in Hungary this August.

How close are you to the strength standards? Have you had your technique looked at by an SFG? Have you been snathching? You can post video here as you know and get help..

If you're close then Brett Jones prep plan and 3 mos. training should get you there. I followed his plan and was well prepared. I would say you should have 1.5-2 yrs. min. kb experience (more is better) and be doing S&S (to Simple) and ROP. If you give yourself 6 mos. to a year (more than enough time) using the guidelines of Brett Jones and intensify your training as the date approaches you'll have a great time, learn a ton and pass with ease (almost).

I highly recommend Jeff Neupert's Big 6 and more if you can get it. Hector G's stuff I hear is gold as well, though I don't have any of it yet.
 
Thanks guys and @Anna C
I do it. There are few things what I need to do.

- lost few kilos to get under 100kg
- at least maintain my current strength level(strong enough to do those tested lifts with dbl 32kg or atleast with 28kg)
- do snatches, plenty of them
- polish my get up(it's my nemesis)
It's not about strength, I'm just bit clumsy in that movement or something like

If somebody thinks that this is not enough. Please tell me so I can work that. Cert is in October so I have time to work things. :)
 
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Sauli - Glad you are going to do it. I'm going past the close here and piling on just because this is so near to my heart.

Someone at my Level 2 last year at the Dome said to me that the cert cost seemed pretty steep for someone who was not a personal trainer - I replied that it was a heck of a lot cheaper than a lot of the medical procedures like a triple bypass or hip replacement. Now there is no guarantee that I will avoid these issues, but I am told as I age that strong movement is one of the most important markers for long and more importantly healthy, enjoyable life.

I look at the SFG 1 & 2 now as a way to keep my movement honest and feel stronger. I learned so much at these events about myself and movement and the wonderful community that is Strongfirst that I would never give back for 100 times the tuition. I am due to re-certify next April. I have taught no students.

I will still re-certify because strength standards like pressing a 36 kg kettlebell, a snatch test, and form tests on the 11 skills keep me honest and on track with my current practice. The dividends on this investment are much higher than any investment in Bitcoin or any other stock I could have made, because it is in my personal education and potential.

And +1 to Pavel Macek, Anna C and Steve F.
 
I actually think the cost can be a plus. I am also not a fitness professional and considering taking it as well, even though I am middle aged and not a fitness professional.

1. Any type of sacrifice will help you to commit. You plunk that money down and commit to a date and watch your motivation/focus go through the roof.

I see this at the Muay Thai gym I go often. I am just a middle-aged guy training for GPP fitness, not competition, but when I see the young guys in the gym have their first fight coming up, wow what a mental and physical transformation. I envy their clarity of purpose.

2. Negotiating with the wife. haha. I am going to a PlanStrong event, which is not cheap either and had to negotiate. I agreed to cut my discretionary spending to the bone for a few months. Every time I look at a latte, or decide what to order at a restaurant, I think I gotta justify the cost. It is easier to save than you think when you have a clear goal. Like a little kid saving their allowance to buy a special toy, you feel like you earned it. Plus, it is something to learn for life, not just buy and forget. An investment.

3. The cert is the main point, but we will probably find that once we challenge ourselves, we will look at all of our regular training differently, raise our game, and practice more effectively, regardless of passing or failing. I received an essential correction to hyperextension on my swing during the user course. I didn't realize I was doing it and I could have trained improperly for years not doing my back any favors. Mark 423 in this thread makes this point as well. In the cert you will get to review everything in depth.

4. If you are not ready to commit to the cert then the user course is a good step and even offers a discount to the cert if you do it within a year. I wish StrongFirst would extend this to more than a year as learning the snatch for cert standards may take time for non-fitness professionals with limited time to train though. I think it is easy to get a gym to put on a user course by request if enough people ask. Get a few people together.

5. Even with my limited knowledge, I have enjoyed giving some pointers to people destined to jack up their back with their hyperextended squat-swings. I love kettlebells but the learning curve is huge. You might find that you like teaching and could do it part-time like Steve.

I can't see any con unless you could spend that time and money on some other type of career training that would really benefit you and your family.
 
I failed the get-up technique because a set of weight plates dropped on my foot a couple weeks before the test and I still couldn’t flex my right ankle

SFG I is a long-term goal of mine (I did the kettlebell course a few weekends ago, but don't feel I'll be ready within a year for the discount #sadtrombone). I'm a little curious about how strict they are on get-up technique. One of the things I know about myself (and we all noticed at the kettlebell course) - I can't flex my toes back to "grip" the mat. I'm trying to figure out how to increase strength/mobility - but am having little luck so far. If I'm not able to improve my toe dorsiflexion will this prevent me from passing the get up skills test?
 
I can't flex my toes back to "grip" the mat. I'm trying to figure out how to increase strength/mobility - but am having little luck so far. If I'm not able to improve my toe dorsiflexion will this prevent me from passing the get up skills test?

No, that's not one of the standards. I would say that's a good cue, and maybe something to try for, but not a big deal if it doesn't work for you.
 
Is it okay initiate drop in snatch by turning your pinky ahead. It's common gs technique and my hands like it much more.

@Anna C @Mark Limbaga @Pavel Macek

If it's allowed: good. If it's not: just bit more work..



There is also some other gs-stuff. I need re-learn my form.. ROFL
 
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While I do not see it as wrong, I would prefer you do not lean back to initiate the drop
Thanks. I actually did after that pretty strict hs-snatches. I was not sure what you ment about that leaning, but I checked it again and noticed it too.
I think I try work that stantard form. It's simpler and faster that way.
 
When it comes to snatches, what is the recommendation for breath timing? Breath out at the push of the hips or near the lockout?
 
Is it okay initiate drop in snatch by turning your pinky ahead. It's common gs technique and my hands like it much more.

I am not sure if that is too much "corkscrew" for SFG I. I think it might be. Need a ruling from SF Leadership on that one. @Brett Jones or other SF Team Leader...

From what I have seen, participants are steered away from that, but it is not a strict standard. The standard says, for the downswing, "Actively lower the kettlebell between your legs in one loose, uninterrupted motion close to the body without touching the chest or the shoulder, and snatch again."

On another note, you might need a bit more fixation in the lockout: "At the lockout, the arm must be level with the head of behind the head, the neck neutral, and the lower back not hyperextended. Maintain the fixation for a second with the arm and legs straight and the feet and body stationary." A hardstyle snatch has the body fairly tight in lockout - knees and hips fully extended. (my addition)

An always useful comparison between GS snatch and hardstyle snatch:



When it comes to snatches, what is the recommendation for breath timing? Breath out at the push of the hips or near the lockout?

The recommendation from most instructors is to use the power breath exhale on the hip snap, same as the swing, and then complete the exhale (if necessary) at the top near lockout. But it is not a requirement, and it is very common for people to exhale only at the top near lockout. The requirement is "biomechancial breathing match" which just means exhale on up, inhale on down.

The technique part (not the standards part) of my SFG II manual says to "Exhale at the point where you are finishing the high pull phase, do not wait until the lockout. You may breathe freely when holding a lockout."
 
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Thanks @Anna C
Lockout may be problem. In skill test I can keep the bell up as long as needed, but in snatch test that maybe problem. I have long hands and taking the bell up and down takes it's own time.
I'll practise stantard form from now on. It's bit faster so I can stop bit longer in lockout.

Well, I don't want to stress myself with that or anything else.
I work hard these next 5+months. Practise my skills and improve my strength and conditioning.
I will be in the best shape of my life in the end of this journey. I'll do my best and it has to be enough for me atleast. :)
 
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Lockout may be problem. In skill test I can keep the bell up as long ad needed, but in snatch test that maybe problem.

I think the "maintain the fixation for a second" only applies to the technique test, not the 5-min snatch test. With the 5-min snatch test you just have to have a motionless pause in lockout but it can be a tiny fraction of a second. ;)

You will do great, I am sure! What most people lack is stamina, and you have plenty of that.

I made a video of my SFG I skills before and after certification. It's very long and boring but may be useful for someone preparing for SFG I. It was 3 years ago now, though... a few things might have changed, but nothing significant that I'm aware of or heard of in my recert at SFG II.
 
I am not SFG certified, but was RKC certified and recertified under Pavel, learned to snatch from Pavel's materials , and have been snatching KBs for about 17 years (IIRC), so I have a lot of familiarity with Hardstyle techniques and principles. I have always been a Hardstyle practitioner and, although I am somewhat familiar with GS techniques, I have never had coaching, or trained or competed in that style.

IMO:
There is no benefit (except perhaps in using a purposeful overspeed eccentric with a lighter bell) and some drawbacks to dropping and catching the KB straight over the top. Not that going straight over is bad technique, but it does have tradeoffs and is not essential to the essence of Hardstyle. Therefore, any standard that requires going straight over the top is misguided.

There is a point where an exaggerated corkscrew drop detracts from the power and crispness that is desirable in Hardstyle, but this is not a justification for requiring only a straight drop and punch through.

Since "corkscrew" seems to be a loaded term, I prefer to think of it as "keeping the hand above the bell." Imagine a two-handed slow motion cheat clean into the rack. The working hand goes from on top of the handle at the bottom to under the handle at the top, but the body of the bell stays below the hand the whole time. If this is good technique for the clean, why not for the snatch?

Leaning back to initiate the drop ("making space for the bell") is good technique and should not be discouraged. I find it very advantageous in allowing for a more vertical drop, close to the body, but still allowing a good angle to sweep the bell into the back swing, and allowing you to absorb some of the force of the drop on the way down (what I call "playing tug o'war with bell" or "taking the slack out of the arm"). That being said, you don't want the "leaning back" to come from hyperextending your lumbar spine, just a subtle bend of the knees to get yourself out of the way of the bell.

If you drop the bell while strictly vertically planked up it creates a couple of potential problems. One is that in order to get an angle to sweep the bell into the backswing, you have to cast the bell too far out in front, which gets especially problematic with heavier bells. The other is that if you drop the bell straight down vertically near your body, you have no angle and sweep it back and the force of the drop tends to hit all at once on the bottom, causing unnecessary stress on the grip and allowing less ability to transfer the force of the drop to the hips. With lighter bells, it's easier to get away without making space for the bell, and casting it a little out in front to create an angle for the backswing. But with a heavier bell, dropping with a strict vertical alignment becomes more problematic.

To me, the two big technical distinctions of Hardstyle compared to GS are rooting and the hip hinge (especially the hip hinge). GS competitors often lift their heels on the drop, and use a "pendulum" hip hinge, with a straightening of knees on the backswing, and a rebending of the knees on the upswing (as in @Sauli's transfer swing in the video above when he switches hands). In Hardstyle, we want to stay solidly rooted, and the hip hinge is a straight back (hip and knee flexion) and straight forward (hip and knee extension). These technical distinctions are essential to the nature of Hardstyle because they are based on the principal of maximum power production, not on maximum efficiency. Whereas, I don't believe that is the case for the straight over the top punch through and drop (with perhaps the exception of a deliberately overspeed eccentric using a lighter bell).

A one second pause in the lockout is unrealistic for a 5 minute snatch test (that's 100 seconds, over a minute and a half out of 5 minutes, just pausing), and in my experience and to my knowledge this is not required on the 5 minute test (as distinct from the technique test). However, there should be fixation in the sense of the bell being momentarily motionless in the lockout. I have seen a lot of people with more of a "touch and go" lockout, along with things like leaning forward, thrusting the head forward, or swinging the bell BACK into the lockout and using the stretch reflex to stop it and propel it forward, where the bell is never really stationary overhead. I don't know how strictly this is currently enforced.

As noted above, these are my opinions and observations, based on my training and experience with kettlebells and the principles of Hardstyle. Obviously, if you are preparing for a certification, you need to comply with the official SF standards.
 
I am not SFG certified, but was RKC certified and recertified under Pavel, learned to snatch from Pavel's materials , and have been snatching KBs for about 17 years (IIRC), so I have a lot of familiarity with Hardstyle techniques and principles. I have always been a Hardstyle practitioner and, although I am somewhat familiar with GS techniques, I have never had coaching, or trained or competed in that style.

IMO:
There is no benefit (except perhaps in using a purposeful overspeed eccentric with a lighter bell) and some drawbacks to dropping and catching the KB straight over the top. Not that going straight over is bad technique, but it does have tradeoffs and is not essential to the essence of Hardstyle. Therefore, any standard that requires going straight over the top is misguided.

There is a point where an exaggerated corkscrew drop detracts from the power and crispness that is desirable in Hardstyle, but this is not a justification for requiring only a straight drop and punch through.

Since "corkscrew" seems to be a loaded term, I prefer to think of it as "keeping the hand above the bell." Imagine a two-handed slow motion cheat clean into the rack. The working hand goes from on top of the handle at the bottom to under the handle at the top, but the body of the bell stays below the hand the whole time. If this is good technique for the clean, why not for the snatch?

Leaning back to initiate the drop ("making space for the bell") is good technique and should not be discouraged. I find it very advantageous in allowing for a more vertical drop, close to the body, but still allowing a good angle to sweep the bell into the back swing, and allowing you to absorb some of the force of the drop on the way down (what I call "playing tug o'war with bell" or "taking the slack out of the arm"). That being said, you don't want the "leaning back" to come from hyperextending your lumbar spine, just a subtle bend of the knees to get yourself out of the way of the bell.

If you drop the bell while strictly vertically planked up it creates a couple of potential problems. One is that in order to get an angle to sweep the bell into the backswing, you have to cast the bell too far out in front, which gets especially problematic with heavier bells. The other is that if you drop the bell straight down vertically near your body, you have no angle and sweep it back and the force of the drop tends to hit all at once on the bottom, causing unnecessary stress on the grip and allowing less ability to transfer the force of the drop to the hips. With lighter bells, it's easier to get away without making space for the bell, and casting it a little out in front to create an angle for the backswing. But with a heavier bell, dropping with a strict vertical alignment becomes more problematic.

To me, the two big technical distinctions of Hardstyle compared to GS are rooting and the hip hinge (especially the hip hinge). GS competitors often lift their heels on the drop, and use a "pendulum" hip hinge, with a straightening of knees on the backswing, and a rebending of the knees on the upswing (as in @Sauli's transfer swing in the video above when he switches hands). In Hardstyle, we want to stay solidly rooted, and the hip hinge is a straight back (hip and knee flexion) and straight forward (hip and knee extension). These technical distinctions are essential to the nature of Hardstyle because they are based on the principal of maximum power production, not on maximum efficiency. Whereas, I don't believe that is the case for the straight over the top punch through and drop (with perhaps the exception of a deliberately overspeed eccentric using a lighter bell).

A one second pause in the lockout is unrealistic for a 5 minute snatch test (that's 100 seconds, over a minute and a half out of 5 minutes, just pausing), and in my experience and to my knowledge this is not required on the 5 minute test (as distinct from the technique test). However, there should be fixation in the sense of the bell being momentarily motionless in the lockout. I have seen a lot of people with more of a "touch and go" lockout, along with things like leaning forward, thrusting the head forward, or swinging the bell BACK into the lockout and using the stretch reflex to stop it and propel it forward, where the bell is never really stationary overhead. I don't know how strictly this is currently enforced.

As noted above, these are my opinions and observations, based on my training and experience with kettlebells and the principles of Hardstyle. Obviously, if you are preparing for a certification, you need to comply with the official SF standards.
Great post Steve. It's all easy till it gets heavy to meet some idealized standards. But standards have a purpose.
 
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